Gardenbuddies.com-Where friends meet to share their gardens

Ignorant Woman Has a Propagation Question

Garden Forum » Camellias in the Garden Forum » Ignorant Woman Has a Propagation Question « Previous    Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clarenancy  Send Clarenancy a private message!


My Garden
Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2008 - 10:58 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Greetings, patient garden friends.

One day I will be a knowledgeable woman!

I've noticed, in this forum and others, that there is much talk of scions and grafting, but little talk of air layering.

What is the benefit of grafting over air layering?

I've tried the air layering with good success. I've never tried grafting and I'm not sure if I should.

Thanks in advance.

Clare

Clarenancy - Alabama, Zone "9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Growit  Send Growit a private message!



Supporting Member

My Favorite Photo
My Weather
My Time
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 05:44 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi Clare

In a lot of cases it is not a case of either or. Some plants do much better if grafted.
One of the benefits of grafting is giving a weak growing scion a strong growing rootstock. Many wisterias are grafted for this very reason. It speeds up flower production with wisterias. Before you would have to wait years for the first flowers!

This RHS site tells you more reasons and probably more succinctly than I could.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles0105/grafting_ornamentals.asp

We were very lucky in our hort class to have an expert in this field teaching us and going against all the health and safety regs he gave us all a go at grafting apple trees. I was so excited when my twig put out its first blossom!

Growit - Hampshire, Zone "8/9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clarenancy  Send Clarenancy a private message!


My Garden
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 08:09 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Thanks Growit,

What you describe is how my citrus trees and japanese maples are developed.

And I understand one may have the desire to produce a bush or tree with varied branches (different types of apples or camellias) or pollarded or what have you.

But I was really asking about camellias reproduction specifically.

I haven't noticed any weakness in any of my air-layering experiments. Perhaps I have been lucky in what varieties I've tried to air-layer. And perhaps it is too soon to tell as I've only done it 2 years in a row. But, happily, they all take on the appearance of a bush several years older than it actually is with large blooms and much foliage.

If I were to graft camellia in the manner we discussed above with the apple, citrus, wisteria and maple, for the purpose of reproduction, I wouldn't even know where and what is suitable rootstock. Or what would make is suitable. Or what benefit that would have over air-layering.

Perhaps I read so many references to scions and grafting because it is easier to get scions when sharing plants than it is to get air-layering.

Change of subject...

What health and safety regulations do you have that would prevent you from having a go at grafting first hand in a class?

Thanks,

Clare

Clarenancy - Alabama, Zone "9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Growit  Send Growit a private message!



Supporting Member

My Favorite Photo
My Weather
My Time
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 09:28 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

HAHA! I didn't notice I was in the Camellia forum. I check on my email for postings and just looked at the question not the section it was being asked in. SORRY!
I just though it was a general query. Having said that (and always ready to increase my knowledge on ANY plant.) Would it produce a substantial plant faster if it were grafted rather than air layered? Maybe it is just within the industry that it would be a better option. More plants available to sell in a shorter space of time. I really don't know as I have never grown camellias. I know with apples that you use a smaller growing rootstock to sustain a strong top to produce a smaller apple tree with less invasive roots. Could that work with camellias? Would you be able to produce a plant that was more compact but still very showy? More suitable for your average suburban garden or small conservatory?
Clarenancy wrote on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 08:09 am:

What health and safety regulations do you have that would prevent you from having a go at grafting first hand in a class?


Too many knives being wielded by too many students to not enough supervisors! The laws in this country are getting more and more ludicrous. We were an adult class not 17 year old teenagers likely to muck around. Having said that I did manage to cut myself almost straight away and hid it for the majority of the lesson so I wouldn't get into trouble!

Growit - Hampshire, Zone "8/9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clarenancy  Send Clarenancy a private message!




My Garden
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 09:54 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi Growit,

I'm rather new to any gardening beyond planting a seed or planting a plant. As a child I was turned off by gardening, what with all the weeding my mother had me do!

And I'm very new to camellias. They were not common where I grew up. And as it happens they are quite common where I live now.

So, the questions you pose and the same as the questions I have.

Sorry about your cut, AND your regulations! We haven't gone that far where I live. Thankfully! I would have hidden my mishap too!

Clarenancy - Alabama, Zone "9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Growit  Send Growit a private message!



Supporting Member

My Favorite Photo
My Weather
My Time
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 06:52 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mara?!
If anyone knows the answer to your/our question it will be Mara (Gardenfiend).

Growit - Hampshire, Zone "8/9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gardenfiend  Send Gardenfiend a private message!



Supporting Member

My Weather
My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 03:27 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Oh, sorry Moira, not me. I'm not into propagating. The one to answer the questions is Ton. He has done a lot of Camellia propagation.
Clare, if Ton doesn't look in here, you could send him a private message. I know he will be able to help.

Gardenfiend - Germany, Zone "7a"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clarenancy  Send Clarenancy a private message!




My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 06:56 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Thanks! To both of you.

Clarenancy - Alabama, Zone "9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Growit  Send Growit a private message!



Supporting Member

My Favorite Photo
My Weather
My Time
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 12:04 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Nothing to thank me for Clare and thankyou Mara for pointing Clare in the right direction!

Growit - Hampshire, Zone "8/9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ton_hannink  Send Ton_hannink a private message!



Supporting Member

My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 01:16 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mara, I have seen your answer.

Clare I have experience with cuttings and layering of Camellia's. I only have done grafting one time.
For cuttings I have made an explanation:
http://members.home.nl/hanninkj/stecklingcamellia.html
Use for your cuttings always young material.

For layering you must use a stem of the same year. At a node you make a wound and put this under the soil. Keep this place rather wet and after 5-8 months you have a rooted plant.
Place this young plant in a good mixture of soil and keep the soil rather wet in the first month.

Start with making of cuttings with an easy cultivar of japonica.

Ton_hannink The Netherlands
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gardenfiend  Send Gardenfiend a private message!



Supporting Member

My Weather
My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 01:36 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Ton, would you like me to translate that into English? I think I'll have to for Clare, anyway. I don't think she understands German???

Gardenfiend - Germany, Zone "7a"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ton_hannink  Send Ton_hannink a private message!



Supporting Member

My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 01:49 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mara, if you have translated the page I make the page in English. Thank you for the help.

Ton_hannink The Netherlands
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gardenfiend  Send Gardenfiend a private message!



Supporting Member

My Weather
My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 02:18 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Here it is, Ton

Taking Camellia Cuttings

Ton Hannink

Back to start


Amateur gardeners often have difficulty taking cuttings from camellias. In this article I will try to guide you through the process.
The following method has worked well for me: From the plant, select cutting material that is neither too young nor too woody. Best results are obtained from young wood that is no longer too soft. The material in photo 1 is too young. Photo 2 is good.


With secateurs, cut a branch or part of a branch from the shrub (see photo).

Cut the branch into separate cuttings (see photos below). (Photo 4, Photo 5)

Then proceed as follows:

- Photo 6 shows an example of a cutting with a leaf that is too large.
- Cut off part of the leaf as in photo 7.
- Slice the bottom end of the cutting as shown in photo 8.
- Dip it into cutting powder, photo 9
- Insert the cuttings into suitable cutting compost or soil (photo 10).

Water and firm the soil so that the cuttings are well moistened from the start. Place the cuttings in a special cuttings box or under plastic foil and ensure that the soil temperature remains between 20-25 degrees C.

The most important points:
- Choose healthy, young branches.
- Make sure the cuttings receive sufficient light but no direct sunlight.
- Use a soil or compost suitable for cuttings, or a soil containing at least 15% sand.
- Ensure there is good air circulation.
- Never allow the cuttings to dry out.
- Keep the temperature between 20-25 degrees C.

Back

Gardenfiend - Germany, Zone "7a"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ton_hannink  Send Ton_hannink a private message!



Supporting Member

My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 04:24 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mara, thank ypu very much.

Clare, here is the page about Camellia cuttings. I have prepared for you with the help of Mara.
http://members.home.nl/hanninkj/cuttingcamellia.html

Ton_hannink The Netherlands
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Growit  Send Growit a private message!



Supporting Member

My Favorite Photo
My Weather
My Time
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 05:06 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Found this for reasons to graft Camellias Claire;

[Camellia plants that produce small inferior flowers or those more susceptible to cold injury can be grafted to correct these conditions.

Grafting unites a vigorous plant's root system (the understock) with a branch of the desired variety (the scion). After the graft takes, the scion grows rapidly. The cleft type of graft is commonly used with camellias and is perhaps the easiest of all the grafting methods.

The best time to graft camellias is in late winter, about four weeks before the foliage begins to grow. This allows the scion and understock time to unite before temperatures get high enough to stimulate new growth.]

Basically Claire air layering is a great way to propagate whereas grafting is only really used to control vigour.

Growit - Hants UK, Zone "8/9"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clarenancy  Send Clarenancy a private message!




My Garden
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 05:27 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

You folks are WONDERFUL! Thank you so much, Ton and Mara!

The method I used last year worked very well. It is like the layering Ton explains above, which I heard referred to as "ground layering" but it is done above ground, thus, "air layering".

See here for an explanation:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2hb7jf


I liked this method because I now have 23 good sized bushes, 1.5 to 2 feet tall. They are as big or bigger than the 3 year old tama no ura I just bought.

I imagine ground layering would be the same, a larger plant would be produced.

Here, the old timers use the rule of thumb, air layer at Mardi Gras and you'll have roots by September. Mardi Gras was very early this year so I reckon I really have until the end of March.

But, I now found a good reason for cuttings over air layering. I found an old forest that used to be a camellia nursery. It was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s. It is all grown over with kudzu and many of the bushes are dead from being choked out by the vines. BUT when I hiked in there yesterday, we went quite deep into the woods and there were very many mature bushes, cultivars that I do not have. One is large and white and fragrant. VERY pretty. I found about 15 different types in there, including what must be an Alba Plena, which I do not have.

It would be difficult to carry the sphagnum and water and foil and root hormone, etc... And then to find your way back in fall when the kudzu is thick again. Of course, I will still have to wait until late spring to get appropriate cuttings.

I think I will try Ton's cutting technique for these shrubs. I shall use mardi gras beads to mark the shrubs I want to get cuttings from this weekend so that I can find them again in May or June.

Thanks!
Clare

Clarenancy - Alabama, Zone "9"

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Resize your photo Bold text Italics Center Underline Upload photo from your hard drive Change the text color Add tables to your post Create a thumbnail Gardenbuddies with webspace insert a photo into your post Insert a photo into your post Insert a clipart image Formatting Help
Make a list Align images, links, and clipart to the left Align images, links, and clipart to the right

Username: Posting Info:
Only registered GardenBuddies can post. If you do not see your post the way you intended it to look in the preview screen then you made a mistake. Please correct it before posting. Remember the only way to link to an image is the following: \imagelink{Http://www.yoururl/yourflower.jpg}
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: or

Topics Legal