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Addict
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:05 pm EST : |   
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I will post some of this year's first time flowering x hybridus here.
The first one I think is unusual- without cheating guess the colour of the flower from the first photo then see photos 2&3 to see the inside as it opens.
The next one Matthias might find interesting it is F1 cross between x hybridus and H. torquatus.
Next a green double then a purple blotch and finally for now a red/purple semi-double
 
addict Staffordshire zone 8(just) UK |
Goswimmin
 Supporting Member
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 04:01 pm EST : |
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Great pictures. What a nice assortment. I fing the blotches to be very interesting. I also like the spotted double.
Mary /Gainesville, GA
Goswimmin
- Georgia,
Zone "7b"
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Terryk
Supporting Member
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 04:14 pm EST : |
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I like that double green Mike. Very delicate looking. Glad to hear it is almost sunny
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Toshio
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 06:23 pm EST : |
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Mike, thank you for your nice photos.
My favorites are H.torquatus hybrid and green double.
Toshio
- Yokohama,Japan,
Zone "?"
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Carol23
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:00 pm EST : |
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What beautiful flowers! I love the double green and the one before it in particular.
Carol23
- Southeastern PA,
Zone "6B"
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Cattjovi
My Weather
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:09 pm EST : |
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Mike, Wow, pretty much says it all.
Arlene
Cattjovi
- Georgia,
Zone "8b"
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Jeffnz
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:47 pm EST : |
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Mike
The FI cross using torquatus is a beauty and a perfect demonstration as to why species should be used more often in breeding. The new species being discovered and now available from a small band of dedicated collectors provide a wealth of new breeding partners for crossing with modern hybrids.
Unfortunately I still have not cracked how to get good germination of wild collected seed down under, which continues to frustrate me.
On this note I have achieved excellent germination rates of hybridus seed imported from Mike, with rates almost matching rates of local seed. The importation of northern hemisphere seed is a challenge and will probably continue to be so unless suppliers ensure that the seed is fresh and stored in such a manner as to maintain high seed moisture levels.
Jeffnz
- Wellington,
Zone "?"
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Matthias
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 04:52 am EST : |
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Jeff, your observation is that seeds from true species plants don't germinate very well compared to x hybridus seeds.
I sowed freshly harvested seeds from species plants and from x hybridus plants last June and kept them in absolutely the same conditions moist and in a cool shady spot in the garden. Results as of yesterday: Nearly 100% germination with the (x hybridus) x (species) group; about 5% germination with the true species, which can be very frustrating, as you say. Seeds of both groups were absolutely fresh. I think species seeds are basically slower than those hybrids, where human selection over many, many generations has resulted in strong, vital plants.
I would be alarmed though, if you had no germination at all from species seeds. Please keep us informed. We could perhaps start a new thread for the topic "germination" if there is enough interest.
Mike, great achievements! That torquatus hybrid is interesting. Would be even more interesting to see what both parent plants looked like.
Matthias
- South Germany,
Zone "7"
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Galanthophile
Supporting Member
My Favorite Photo
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:04 pm EST : |
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The torquatus hybrid is beautiful and the rest aren't bad either! Wonderful photos.
Galanthophile
- Ann (Northern England),
Zone "8"
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Terryk
Supporting Member
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 03:26 pm EST : |
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I would be interested. I too find them difficult. I had many of Will's seed in pots for a few years and then finally decided to drop the contents into the garden. It will be interesting to see if they germinate there (I did stick the labels in with them just in case).
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Dee_b
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 03:37 pm EST : |
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I would be interested in a germination thread too Matthias.
I have tried for years to get hellebore to germinate, with no success, yet if I fail to collect seed from the plant, they germinate themselves in the garden.....frustrating!
Dee_b
- West Midlands,
Zone "7"
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Jeffnz
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 08:30 pm EST : |
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Terryk I do not hold out much hope of your seeds from Will germinating after so long. From notes I have come across H vesicarius is the only species that does maintain long term seed viability. I no longer keep seed pots of hybridus or species for more than 1 season, if there is no germination in year 1 than keeping the pots for a further year has proved pointless. I also now do not hold the warm/cold cycle as being an absolute requirement for germination. Northern hemisphere seed arrives here September-October and I sow immediately. In some pots there is always the odd seedling appear within 6-8 weeks of sowing, during this time the temperatures are steadily increasing but given the reverse seasons the seed pots are never chilled. The appearance of the odd early seedling has shown to bode well for the overall rate (seed usually germinates here any time from March onwards).
I always soak imported seed prior to sowing in an open bark based mix. Over the years I have tried soaking in sugar solutions, addition of spray wetting agents to the water, low levels of hypochlorite or hydrogen peroxide, all have failed to give improved germination compared to good old H2O.
So I still rate fresh seed but more importantly following collection seed must be stored in a manner that maintains the seed in a plump state, once the seed dries out to a certain moisture content then it will not recover. One easy way to avoid seed drying out is to store seed in a small sized plastic container with a tightly fitting screw cap, however seed must be ripe as fungus growth can occur. Once seed is sown ensure mix does not dry out but also avoid over watering as this will cause seed to rot or fall prey to soil borne fungus diseases.
In summary, mother nature will always have the upper hand, as she has been at the game much longer than any of us. Seed germination can be difficult but good rates can be achieved with diligence and experience, to use the green grocers saying 'fresh is still the best'.
Despite many attempts with H. Thibetanus I have failed to get seed of this species to germinate, so any suggestions would be most welcome.
Jeffnz
- Wellington,
Zone "?"
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Addict
| | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 04:23 am EST : |
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Matthias - trying to get me to give away my trade "secrets" -
Well as it's you and just this once
These are the proud parents of the torquatus F1 - I am now trying to get it into a semi-double and then double form too as I like the colour and strong picotee. The torquatus was the pollen donor.
Jeff following your recent email to me I went out and checked last years seed planting of thibetanus. They are still emerging and a few have been "slugged" but the rate is about 70%.
For once I slightly disagree with Matthias!
I don't find species any poorer germinators then hybrids provided that the seed is fresh and still moist and not left too long in the carpel - remember I posted a while back that dessication starts in the carpel just before full ripeness. The problem is wild collected seed because of the process,transport,sorting and shipping out is far less fresh than seed just collected from the garden.
Seeds from Matthias that I know were fresh give 80% plus germination, similarly Tim and my own species but I have had zero germination from another reputable source.
addict Staffordshire zone 8(just) UK |
Marylou
My Weather
| | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 06:59 am EST : |
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I like the green one´s!!!
Marylou
- Northern Germany,
Zone "52' 31" North, 13' 20" East"
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Jgwoodard
My Garden
| | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 08:11 am EST : |
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Great plants Mike, and that first group of photos is crystal clear. I have quite a few open-pollinated plants that are very similar to that torquatus hybrid, but the shape on yours is much better. I can see why as your pod-parent is simply perfect in every way. Good work.
I've had both good and poor germination from all sorts of hellebore seed, species and otherwise. I think Mike is right about the dessication factor. I'm not sure if I will continue to acquire seed in the future as I'm up to my neck in hellebores, but nursery seed (open-pollinated) from species is my main interest these days. Some seedlings from H. bocconei:
Jgwoodard
- TN,
Zone "7"
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Matthias
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 03:05 am EST : |
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Mike, thank you for that interesting information about the progeny of your (x hybridus) x species seedling. I think the F2-s of your seedling might be very variable and offer even better patterns, some of them combining the white sepals of the seed parent with the picotee of the pollen parent.
I would self pollinate the seedling or cross with a good sibling ... :-)
Joseph, your bocconei seedlings look fantastic. I bet most of them will all start flowering this October/November. Just try to classify these plants by leaf morphology ... :-)
Matthias
- South Germany,
Zone "7"
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Malgorzata
Supporting Member
My Garden
| | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 06:38 am EST : |
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Mike, the clean white pikotee with dark nectaries and round petals is the ultimate Helleborus beauty for me. 
Malgorzata
- Fukuoka-Kyushu,
Zone "8/9"
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Jalos
My Favorite Photo
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 04:28 am EST : |
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Oh my gosh, they are so beautiful!!!
Love the 3rd en 4th from above!
Jalos
- Friesland,
Zone "?"
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