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LFH roots and stem production

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Peer_nz  Send Peer_nz a private message!



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Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 03:24 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

As a support for some of my earlier statements in (LFH of Paul) I post this tread. (you may want to read Pouls tread in order to get the full picture)
This discussion is about LFH cutting-grown or grafted (the standard commercial way), NOT tissue- or seed-grown.
First Stolons: (I had to go and read up on that for a clearer definitional) Stolons are horizontal growing stems (like Cornus stoloniferus or strawberries, suckers or runners (Hartmann & Kestner)), not roots. And I'm sure clematis will produce stolons (and satellites plants) when looking for a better place to grow.

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Clematis roots are like shoe strings with mostly non branching and if those are thin side-roots, they seems to rather produce a new root from the stem than grow side-roots. This is visible in the pic with the masses of roots (pruned) emerging from a stem mainly the internode, the loose tip broke off with handling is the lowest part of the internode and continuing upwards it's clear there are no buds or shoots emerging below the first node. The pics are from a 5 - 6 year old plant from a 9 litre container.
I maintain there is no shoot development and can't be below the first node, it may be possible to get so called floating buds in the internode above the first node.

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Crosscut show the first node (this is planted approx. 5cm deep in the mix) and here it divide to 2 shoots there goes up to the surface and build the crown (there are no sign of buds below the first node)(it's nursery practice to plant rooted cutting deeper than previous planting depth)

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When examination the stem I find lots of buds more or less dormant, but as far as I see they all come from around the node area, none from the inter-node. It have to be said some of those nodes are as little apart as 3 to 8mm. (I do not have lenses so I can get real close-ups of the finer details, so you will have to relay on my observations done with a magnifier)

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Peer_nz - Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ, Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Roelie  Send Roelie a private message!



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Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 07:56 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

thank you Peer very interesting

Roelie - Overijssel, Zone "Holland"
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Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 12:21 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Really wonderful pictures, I think this is so very interesting. Thanks so much Peer for taking the time to post all this.

Bells - Sussex, Zone "6"
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Katie  Send Katie a private message!




Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 12:38 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Very interesting. I have lost clematis in my garden that look like your picture #2. The roots are still intact but the stem is completely gone therefore the nodes are gone and the clematis will not sprout again.

This happens in my garden when they get buried too deep or sink in the good soil. In my mild climate I never bury my clematis the recommended 2 inches but I check them frequently to make sure the roots remain covered.

Katie

Katie - Northern California, Zone "8"
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Peer_nz  Send Peer_nz a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 04:27 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Katie wrote on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 12:38 pm:

This happens in my garden when they get buried too deep or sink in the good soil. In my mild climate I never bury my clematis the recommended 2 inches



You must have high groundwater or live in a swamp. Free draining are always important, and in your case I would say raise the area where you are planting, (like a molehill), but keep roots covered with at least 4 inches when planted and keep the plants mulched.

Peer_nz - Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ, Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 02:39 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

The plant on the pictures was butchered just for the photo opportunity

Peer_nz - Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ, Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Timo  Send Timo a private message!


Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 06:13 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Peer_nz wrote on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 03:24 am:

. And I'm sure clematis will produce stolons (and satellites plants) when looking for a better place to grow.

At least the Atragenes make these.

Peer_nz wrote on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 04:27 am:

I would say raise the area where you are planting, (like a molehill)


Earlier we discussed, that these ”molehills” can be used for propagation of clematis ( stool or mound layering). The following pictures show how I got 35 small plants from Clematis ’Westerplatte’. Tey also indicate what happens when we plant our large-flowered clematis deep, or raise the bed.

My experiment was started for two years ago, and ended today. The height of the frame is 20 cm. The old stems were cut from the original soil level. The original 'Westerplatte' is still OK.
The second photo shows the biggest among the small-plants.



Timo - South Finland, Zone "USDA 5"
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Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 01:14 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

A very nice example Timo of the influence of planting depth. On the basis of what you already showed us with 'Abundance', I've installed a few upturned pots on my shallow plantings.

Paul - Switzerland, Zone "7"
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Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 01:48 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Timo, a very good result.

Ton_hannink The Netherlands
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Roelie  Send Roelie a private message!



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Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 03:00 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

but what do you expect for the montana Peer ? gr. Roelie

Roelie - Overijssel, Zone "Holland"
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Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 09:41 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Peer,

I am beginning to realize that I am over watering as a result of living in a very dry area. I get no rain from about the first of June through most of September.

I think I just need to moderate my watering. All of the clematis are well mulched. Maybe some testing with moisture meters throughout the summer would help.

Katie - Northern California, Zone "8"
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Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 04:03 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

C. socialis is another which sends out underground stolons.

Keith_treadaway - Pembrokeshire, Zone "8 - 9"
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 02:03 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Katie wrote on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 09:41 am:

I am over watering as a result of living in a very dry area.


If you only water twice in a week it should not be a problem, this depend naturally on what sort of soil you got, just remember plants breathe with their roots.

Roelie wrote on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 03:00 am:

but what do you expect for the montana Peer

Not sure what you mean, I do not recommend deep planting on Montanas, Montanas are quite sensitive to winter wet.

Nice production, Timo.

Peer_nz - Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ, Zone "USDA zone 9"

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