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Jameslb  Send Jameslb a private message!



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Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 09:37 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I had always planted the viticella types just like I planted the large-flowered varieties, with the crown at least three inches below soil level.

After looking through a few of my books on clematis, and paying closer attention(LOL), it's recommended that they be planted with their crown AT soil level - oops!

The reason I'm wondering if it's a mistake is because I noticed a couple of them don't seem very vigorous and, what's scaring me, one seems less vigorous than last year!

I hope I'm just imagining things, because I would hate to lose my little Pagoda! Anybody do the same and have no problems?

Jameslb - California, Zone "9, 10, 11... "
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Jeanne  Send Jeanne a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:04 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


I plant my Viticellas the same way as I do my other clematis?..I've never heard of planting them with the crown at soil level...they like to stay just as moist as the others...Some are more vigorous in the beginning than others and some emerge later...Jeanne

Jeanne - Texas, Zone " 8B I prefer to say 9 "
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Heathergirl  Send Heathergirl a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:17 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Jameslb wrote on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 09:37 pm:

I would hate to lose my little Pagoda!



I don't blame you. It's one of my favorites too. If it's any consolation to you I have planted my viticellas (some deeper than others) and haven't noticed any difference. When I first started out, I was told by a nurseryman to plant deep so I did. Then I read similar advice to you and subsequently planted later additions at more or less soil level. I don't follow hard and fast rules but maybe I should.

Heathergirl - County Durham, Zone "8"
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Frostycurls  Send Frostycurls a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 07:10 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I've always planted both the ELF and viticellas deep and they've done very well. If yours seems less vigorous than last year I'd be wondering if something was going on with the roots. Sometimes a vole or gopher can be below surface eating the roots. I'd probably be tempted to dig down and have a look. I had a beautiful Laura who did wonderfully well for several years, last year she wasn't her usual self, when I dug her up to see what was going on she had almost no roots. I put her in a pot and I think she's going to survive but it was a close call.

Penny Oregon Zone 7
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Jameslb  Send Jameslb a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:48 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I was re-reading through the Encyclopedia of Clematis by Mary Toomey when I spotted that tidbit about the viticellas.

Jane, have you noticed any difference in performance between the ones planted deep and the ones planted more shallow? I usually take the advice I read in books with a grain of salt and have had pretty good success with clematis anyways ;)

Gophers aren't really an issue in my area so I think I'm just being impatient, Pagoda is growing, just not at a fantastic rate.

Jameslb - California, Zone "9, 10, 11... "
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Heathergirl  Send Heathergirl a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:50 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Jameslb wrote on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:48 am:

Jane, have you noticed any difference in performance between the ones planted deep and the ones planted more shallow?



Only that the ones planted deeper take longer to break the surface.

Is this the passage you read from Mary Toomey's book?

If the plant produces large flowers, ensure that the surface of the root ball is at least 6 cm (2.25 in.) below the rim of the hole. Deep planting encourages large-flowered cultivars to develop a healthy basal root crown of buds below the soil level as a precaution against sudden wilting. Such planting is unnecessary for Clematis alpina, C. tangutica, C. viticella, and their cultivars because they generally do not succumb to wilt. Similarly, evergreen and herbaceous species such as C. armandii, C. cirrhosa, C. heracleifolia, C. integrifolia, and C. recta shoud be planted with the crown of the plant level with the soil.

Although M. Toomey states that it is unnecessary , she doesn't actually say that planting deep will do them any harm.

However, I always ensure that my atragenes, evergreens and herbaceous species are planted with crowns at soil level. They like good drainage and I'm always afraid they will suffer during the wet, winter months.

I'm also thinking now that I should try to lift and replant my 'John Huxtable' with crown at soil level. Even though it's in a prime spot, it has only produced one weak stem in two years. I seem to recall Peer saying this one needed a good, dry summer to do well. Mine is planted deep in very fertile, moisture retentive soil. }}

Heathergirl - County Durham, Zone "8"
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Gardenbug  Send Gardenbug a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 10:28 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I'm certainly not digging mine up from their deep planting. Clematis such as recta, alpinas and viticellas have been here over 10 years and done fine. My main problem will always be rabbits...
Voles ARE a real danger...not the gophers so much here.

Gardenbug - Ontario, Zone "4/5"
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Jameslb  Send Jameslb a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:30 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Jane, that is the exact passage I was referencing, good eye lol! You're right, there is no mention of harm so I'll just have to have more patience, I guess ;) Good luck if you decide to replant your John Huxtable, it's always a delicate thing to consider whether to leave it be and see how it goes, or charge ahead and replant. My Dr Ruppel is acting the same, one stem in two years *sigh*, the one I had before was vigorous and beautiful!

Jameslb - California, Zone "9, 10, 11... "

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