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"Sleep, Creep, Leap"

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Jameslb  Send Jameslb a private message!



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Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 09:47 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I can't remember if I heard the phrase "Sleep, Creep, and Leap" to describe clematis specifically or perennials in general. If you haven't heard it, it goes something like this: newly planted plants sleep the first year, creep and grow a little the second year, and leap the third year with lots and lots of growth.

In any case, I was wondering when you actually start the countdown? Does the year it was planted count as the sleep year or does the clock start ticking the following year?

I have lots of new plants that should be at least at the creep mark and a few that could be at the leap mark, but I'm a little hazy on the saying. If the countdown starts at planting, some of my clematis have some explaining to do LOL!

Jameslb - California, Zone "9, 10, 11... "
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Gardenbug  Send Gardenbug a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 04:46 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I think the saying applies to many perennials, but I first heard it applied to clematis. For me, I'd say that the year it was planted counts as the sleep year. But I'd also say that the "leap" year could easily be year 3 or 4.

On the other hand, all could be different in California where temperatures are generally warmer than in England or Canada. You mention Pagoda as a concern of yours. Since that one is generally listed as thriving in zones 5-9, perhaps heat is an issue in your zone? I do not speak from experience on this, just a thought.

Gardenbug - Ontario, Zone "4/5"
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Jeanne  Send Jeanne a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:07 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


The "Sleep,Creep & then Leap" theory applies to climbing roses as well...I agree that the heat can be a variable as well...and insufficient watering..as well as specific varieties...My "Piilu" has been the worse performer in my garden than any...My "Mme. Julia Correvon" is leaping her second year..so they do vary....Jeanne

Jeanne - Texas, Zone " 8B I prefer to say 9 "
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Heathergirl  Send Heathergirl a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:08 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

James, I have bought some container grown plants that have leapt away from the start. Mostly the ones with lots of stems and good roots, so I think a lot depends on the maturity of the plant you buy. But I do accept that a plant has to settle in to a new spot and put out roots into the surrounding soil to fully establish itself.

Heathergirl - County Durham, Zone "8"
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Jameslb  Send Jameslb a private message!



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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:57 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I think the plants I buy are all so varied in age and health to begin with that I probably shouldn't rely on the saying anyways. I tend to buy very young plants in small containers because of the limited space I have to work in - I don't have enough room to plant something in a 5 gallon container.

Sometimes, against my better judgement, I'll buy a plant that only has a stem or two and they usually stay scraggly for a while.

I live about a mile from the water so luckily heat isn't a huge factor but I think without having a distinct winter here, the plants don't know when to start or stop, so they just sort of keep growing steadily instead of strongly lol.

Jameslb - California, Zone "9, 10, 11... "
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Mike_in_chicago  Send Mike_in_chicago a private message!

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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 07:46 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

First, Jeanne, what's the georgous rose with florida sieboldii?

Second, James, I agree with what's being said - some clematis are just more vigorous, and a pot-grown, 2-year-old version from a reliable supplier will take off quickly. Still, it's more like sleep, sleep, creep, creep, leap for some (are you listening Fair Rosamund?).

Mike_in_chicago - Chicago, IL, Zone "5b"
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Gardenbug  Send Gardenbug a private message!



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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 08:00 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I know that in the past forum people in California certainly have followed pruning guidelines differently because of the exact reasons you mention.

Gardenbug - Ontario, Zone "4/5"
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Jeanne  Send Jeanne a private message!



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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 08:21 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mike_in_chicago wrote on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 07:46 am:

First, Jeanne, what's the georgous rose with florida sieboldii?

Second, James, I agree with what's being said - some clematis are just more vigorous, and a pot-grown, 2-year-old version from a reliable supplier will take off quickly



Mike..that is "Angel Face" with my "Florida Sieboldii"
I find the Viticellas/pruning group 3's to be able to take more sun and more vigorous than they 2's...all My 4 year old 2's are going gangbuster this year..they really have become uncontollable..they are in just morning sun or filtered light and seem to fair better than those in more sun..you just can't grow those here in full sun...or they brown-out really badly..
James did you practice hardpruning your pruning group 2 clematis the second season they are in your gardens..I have found that I have much less a chance of wilt doing so and they seem to get more vigorous from doing so..I still have a one vine wonder on my clematis "Claire de Lune"..yet that one vine after two hard prunings blooms like mad...In saying that I planted Clematis "Hoshi-no-Flamenco this Spring and she wilted after about 4 weeks..boohoo..I pruned her evenly with the soil and am giving her a liquid feed..hopefully I will see her rebound..the first year I planted Clematis "Henryi"..he wilted and reappeared as Roelie said in about 4 weeks...Keeping him moist with liquid feed did the trick...Jeanne

Jeanne - Texas, Zone " 8B I prefer to say 9 "
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Mike_in_chicago  Send Mike_in_chicago a private message!

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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 09:04 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I love Angel Face; it's one I actually have!

Mike_in_chicago - Chicago, IL, Zone "5b"
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Jameslb  Send Jameslb a private message!



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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 11:02 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mike, I think the phrase needs to be changed to your description, too funny! And too true, sadly. Jeanne, I'm getting to be much more fearless with pruning now, hopefully it's not too late. I think I babied some of them too much and didn't prune when I should have. I'm sure I'd have fuller, healthier plants by now.

Like Gardenbug said, I think the rules don't always apply to warm-climate areas, and I'm starting a more strict pruning regimen this year. Whenever the plants look as if they'd benefit, the clippers are coming out! I planted a fairly young Asao recently and after it bloomed, I got over my pruning phobia and chopped it down pretty ruthlessly. It's amazing that within just a few weeks, new growth buds are already starting to swell.

Jameslb - California, Zone "9, 10, 11... "
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Charlenenj  Send Charlenenj a private message!



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Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 07:24 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

My experience has also been that sleep/creep/leap depends in part on the variety of clematis. Even though all were about the same maturity when put in the ground, my Prince Charles leaped right away and so did my Odoribe, but my Perl D'Azur is taking it's time to get established. My Blue Bird took 3 years to flower for the first time but just put on a ton of growth after flowering so next year should be fun.

Charlenenj - New Jersey, Zone "6b"
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Weather  Send Weather a private message!


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Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 10:40 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

The Climador that I bought last year in a 5 gallon pot slept through the summer (drought year). Now we have record rain and standing there I can watch it grow. Interesting because I'm not a good gardener.

Plus 2 of the 3 small clematis I planted in the last 6 weeks are growing as well. I bought smaller trellis for 2 of them and will need to upgrade. The two that are growing are the Crispa (wettest area / semi-sun) and Julia Correvon (sun) The only one that isn't growing is the montana and that's because wind pruned it.

Weather - Missouri, Zone "5 / 6"

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