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Growit
 Supporting Member
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 05:26 am EST : |   |
So here it is then.
The first two are from the Summer when it still had the net on to keep my cat and a visiting heron out.
The problem with that was the frogs got tangled in the net when trying to get in and out. So I took the net off, reduced the size of the pavers and added a fence, the idea being that my cat would not be able to straddle the fence and keep his balance. Any heron would also have the same problem.
As you can see from the picture above I have left a run off into a bog garden as the pond cannot naturally flood. It is up so high (My garden is terraced)right on the edge of a 3/4 foot drop and water/mud would wash over the edge.
Under the belly of the crocodile it is slightly lower than the rest of the pond to allow the water to drain into the bog area. This also allows the frogs to get out of the pond as it is a little too high for them to get out anywhere else. BUT!!!! My cat has been using this end to stalk my fish!! I do not want to make the fence any higher as the whole point of it was that the plants around the outside would disguise it.
This last picture shows the other problem. (I really did not plan this out very well! ) The area where the seat is is in full sun shining down onto the pond ALL day. I do not have enough planting space to block the sun or at least if I put something tall enough that end we will be sat facing a very 'in our face' wall of foliage. You may just be able to make out a Fatsia there. UGH!! I cannot get it out without damaging the pond liner (which if you remember from my original avatar picture I have already had to fix once) I tried to cut it do death but it won't give up. It is in far too much sun and just looks sickly when it does grow.
I have spent hours staring at this pond trying to figure out what to do that won't be a mammoth overhaul. Quite frankly I am fed up with it now and as much as I dug the stupid thing to encourage wildlife I want to fill it in and give up. I posted here because I wrote about it in my journal and GBs want to see if they can help.
....All yours.
Growit
- Hampshire,
Zone "8/9"
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Gardenfiend
Supporting Member
My Weather
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 06:17 am EST : | |
I'm feeling a bit the same about my pond which seems to have sprung a leak, in spite of my having completely redone it with expensive latex liner two years ago.
I've long since given up trying to protect fish against herons. Protecting them against cats is a lot easier as it is just a matter of choosing the right fish. I used to have golden orfs (? Goldorfen), the decorative form of a native fish. They are far too clever to let cats catch them. Now I have genuine wild fish in the pond and so far they have outsmarted even the herons, mainly by keeping themselves so well hidden they might as well not be in there at all.
Not sure what the point of them is...
If you can live without fish, you'll probably get a nice newt population in their place, and they are really just as much fun.
Gardenfiend
- Germany,
Zone "7a"
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Bluewillow
My Favorite Photo
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 06:26 am EST : | |
Moira....it's time to give Charlie Dimmock a call me think :-)
Bluewillow
- London UK, Now Canada,
Zone " 5b"
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Growit
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 07:27 am EST : | |
Mara you are so funny. It makes me laugh everytime I read that. All that explanation about clever hiding fish only to convince yourself it is not worth having them. It is making me laugh even as I am typing!
So...newts then. Will my cat try and get them too? He tries for the frogs, gets a few but they are quick. Do newts eat mosquito larvae? The other thing is the planting. My pond will green up and get horrid blanket weed if I leave it so sunny.
Haha! Would love to but apart from the expense she will probably tell me to fill it in anyway.
Growit
- Hampshire,
Zone "8/9"
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Heirloomgardens
Supporting Member
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 08:30 am EST : | |
I do not have a pond (well, I have a real one way out in the back, but you know what I mean), so my ideas may be completely useless, but here they are anyway. (LOL!)
What about a sheet of wire fence placed over the top of the pond? If you get a rather open, but not too open (not like sheep fence) grid, the frogs could get in and out, the cat couldn't catch anything IN the pond, and the heron couldn't really catch anything in the pond, either. You might be able to make the fence bow up at the end by your croc so that the frogs could still get out easily there in the low spot. Then maybe you could plant some moisture-loving dense plant right there by the croc to give the frogs a place to dart into in case the cat is waiting for them.
As for the bench, and even the pond, what about building an arbor/trellis to let vines (Clems!) climb on and provide some shade?
I have heard that stringing fishing line across a pond will deter herons.
Heirloomgardens
- Massachusetts,
Zone "5b"
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Loretta
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 09:02 am EST : | |
I was going to post the same suggestion. They use it here but it won't help with cats.
Loretta
- NJ,
Zone "6"
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Growit
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 09:30 am EST : | |
Tried that but it bows in the middle also looks quite ugly.
I have several things planted there now but they are deciduous. Any suggestions on evergreen bog loving plant that is well behaved?
Oooh! had not thought of that! It would have to be quite narrow and not as tall as usual cos it does get hit by the wind there but if I could find something like a woven willow thingy (you know what I mean!) to fit snugly around the seat it might work.....thinking, thinking, planning...
Exactly.
Growit
- Hampshire,
Zone "8/9"
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Plantindude
My Garden
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:24 am EST : | |
I don't if I can be much help growit,but I'll pass along a few suggestions from when I had a small pond,I removed mine last fall ,first couldn't take the extra cost of maintance and just the time it took when I had so many other things needing to be done on the garden. do the fish have a place to hide ? if not sink some stone,build like a cave for them to hide under,or a peice of old pipeing{large enough for them to swim into},increase the over hang so fish can get under and stay out of reach of the cats. ,possible the birds too. netting is one the protection aganist birds . there is however a motion sensor water spray/sprinkler I've seen advertisted that can be used too deter birds/cats/dogs. There are pet/fish friendly pond chemicals that can help keep alge growth in check ,you can use barly bales/balls soled through pond suppliers that help too. You also waterlilies,the pads help shade the water keeps it cooler and helps block sunlight. water lettce and water hyancith {pardon my poor spelling} thats just float on the water. well I hope some of these help. ..Mike
Plantindude
- Ohio,
Zone "5"
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Heirloomgardens
Supporting Member
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:39 am EST : | |
Could you submerge it to make it less unsightly and prop it up in the middle with rocks to keep it from bowing? I think the waterplant ideas would help camouflage it, too, if it's submerged.
Heirloomgardens
- Massachusetts,
Zone "5b"
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Dee_b
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:44 am EST : | |
Hi Moira,
I was going to suggest a waterlily, which shades the water in summer, you can get small ones which don't spread like crazy; it will also hide the fish at the same time. Water hyacinth is nice, it's got spikey leaves and fragrant flowers in summer (not that you will be getting in there to smell them), but it attracts insects, and in winter the plant sinks to the bottom of the pond.
I also have the same sort of fencing round my small pond, which the frogs can hop through, and from autumn onwards I fix some black, large holed pea netting to the fence, which you don't notice, being black. I leave it on for as long as possible, to detract the cats, It also catches the falling leaves.
As for the herons...they wont 'step' over anything to get to the fish/frogs, so the fence deters them.
Hope it helps.
Dee_b
- West Midlands,
Zone "7"
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Plantindude
My Garden
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:47 am EST : | |
The motion activated sprinkler i suggested is called the scarecrow ,I found a good example At www.provenrepellents.com.
Plantindude
- Ohio,
Zone "5"
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Gardenfiend
Supporting Member
My Weather
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:50 am EST : | |
Cats seem to ignore newts. I've not lost any to cats yet. Herons don't eat them, either. Of course they come and go: leave the pond in July and return in winter or early spring. Anyway they are there on the first slightly warm day.
Waterlilies and other floating plants are a very good suggestion. Also other plants within the liner whose roots extend into the water. They reduce the nutrients, provided you remove the foliage every autumn. Also provided you don't feed your bog plants. Mosquito larvae don't thrive in nutrient-poor water; also frogs should catch any that do manage to emerge. I've had ponds for about 25 years and never had problems with mosquitoes - even without fish.
Gardenfiend
- Germany,
Zone "7a"
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Heirloomgardens
Supporting Member
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 11:58 am EST : | |
Bamboo (well, maybe not well-behaved), Vinca, Wintergreen (Pyrola), some Hemerocallis and Heuchera, maybe Rushes or Sedges, but you don't like grasses, right? Here's something for you to look over. They don't say which ones are evergreen, but maybe you know them when you see them:
http://www.plantideas.com/bog/index.html
More light reading ( ):
http://www.ipcc.ie/sitescragh.html
Heirloomgardens
- Massachusetts,
Zone "5b"
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Growit
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 01:37 pm EST : | |
Thanks everyone. Lots of suggestions.
The first two pictures I posted are late Spring early Summer so you should just be able to make out a few leaves of my waterlily as it was just starting to grow. This one might show it a bit better.
I tried Aponogeton and the fish ate it and many others I have tried. I don't think I have tried Water hyacinth (Eichhornia Crassipes?) Do you know if fish eat it Dee?
At present there is a white waterlily, dwarf reed, a yellow bobbly flowered thing (can't remember the name) which the fish nibble occasionally. Saggittaria(?) tall white flowers and Elodea crispa the oxygenator deep water plant. That is the other problem as far as shading is concerned. I put the shelf at the bog end not the end the sun hits! There are various rocks and pebbles that end for the fish to hide amongst and the frogs (which was my main reason for putting them there) have somewhere to spawn that the fish can't reach. (they eat the tadpoles)
No and no. I cannot build a stable enough pile of rocks in the middle as it is a good 3 foot or more in a funnel shape which becomes very narrow at the bottom. Just a little wider than my waterlily pot. The other problem I had with the netting on there was that if it was on the surface of the water it stopped the waterlily flowers from surfacing which they need to do and I had to cut it around all my water plants which made it sag even more.
I could do that. Thanks Dee :)
I didn't know that. You are a mine of info Dee. Hopefully that means the fish I do have are just in the bottom where I cannot see them. All I have seen in the past week or two are my large white possibly Koi fish and a couple of the tench today. I also have 2 goldfish, one with fancy fins and a smaller white goldfish that was born in there. Those, I thought, might have been eaten by a heron. As long as my cat has not sneakily eaten them (He normally brings them in the kitchen...yuk!) then they may still be alive...Hurrah!
Tried them. Didn't have much affect. Pond still went green. Still got blanket weed.
Yes taking it all in. Feeling a little more optimistic now.
Interesting. Perhaps I can find something smaller like that so it won't be so obvious near a little pond....Glad I do not have to deal with snakes!
I didn't know that Mara. If I have no luck with my fishes I will try to encourage them instead.
No I don't.
Oh good. The last thing I want is to start a mosquito colony!:)
Growit
- Hampshire,
Zone "8/9"
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Growit
Supporting Member
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 02:06 pm EST : | |
Thanks DJ. I had not seen your post until I posted. Now you know how long it took me to answer everyone and make the tea and feed the cat and do two loads of washing lol! Good sites I will check them out properly later.
Bamboo woild be just a tad too big for my little bog I think.
Vinca? (periwinkle?) invasive here. Pyrola I don't know will check it out. Grasses I love (just not pink ones lol!) but there is a rush and a grass in the pond already plus a few others in the ground at the crocodile end. They just don't show up very well in my pictures.
Growit
- Hampshire,
Zone "8/9"
|
Heirloomgardens
Supporting Member
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 02:34 pm EST : | |
Not sure if you meant too wide or too tall, but since you didn't entirely blow it off, what about Miniature Bamboo?
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/55137/
Heirloomgardens
- Massachusetts,
Zone "5b"
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Dee_b
Supporting Member
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 02:53 pm EST : | |
Sorry Moira, I know I said water hyacinth, but I meant water soldier.
http://www.iowas.co.uk/Soldier.html
They have got rough edges, so I wouldn't have thought it very palatable.
I know that Koi carp eat all vegetation in ponds, and the bright colours may be attractive to cats. I'd have thought the tench, living at the bottom of the pond, mostly 'dodge' the cats. Frilly finned fish are slower movers...cats 'catch 'em' easily....pontless mentioning all that though when they're already in there.....sorry!
I wondered if you had a grass in there, when I put a grass in my pond the green water disappeared, I thought that might be because the grass took up the nitrogen. The grass did grow very vigorously though, and I had to keep chopping it back.
I think cats ignore newts because they are quite slow moving, and they don't notice them so much. Frogs, hopping around, is like 'come and catch me' to cats....at least it is in my garden.
I've not gone for fish in my pond, just wildlife. It's very difficult to deter frogs though once you've got them...as with newts, they always return to the pond they 'hatched in'
Gone on a bit there haven't I...probably all useless info, but some of it may help.
roys, may read this post and be able to help...he has a pond, koi carp and cat probs.
(when I saw the background on the url ive inserted Moira, couldn't help thinking of (OoGBoO) 
Dee_b
- West Midlands,
Zone "7"
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Growit
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| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 04:09 pm EST : | |
Sorry about my spelling on that one as well DJ. I meant that it would choke my bog and probably spread beyond it too. Bamboo is also notorious for barbed runners that pierce pond liners. The miniature would be nice and is not a true bamboo. I may give it a shot but it is not very hardy and might find the bog too wet. http://wyevale.shootgardening.co.uk/sitePlant.php?plantid=4415&name=pogonat herum-paniceum
Ah yes. I know this one. Might be worth a try. Doesn't sound too tasty does it.
I know. He left one on my kitchen floor...decapitated but still wriggling!
LOL! Yeah thanks for that.
No. How could you think that. Have you seen how much DJ and Lisa (flowerfreak) write?!
Seriously, everything everyone has said has been so helpful and useful and for the first time in ages I do feel more positive about my pond. It may get a reprieve. At least for a few more months.
Ok where is he. The more the merrier :)
HAHA! I see what you mean. You could always join Dee. All you need to do is go shopping and forget everything. Not hard for the average modern, busy woman!
Growit
- Hampshire,
Zone "8/9"
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Stephie
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 09:23 pm EST : | |
Bamboo (non running) placed in pots sunk into the earth work well near ponds. Any water plant that will provide shade helps protect fish...iris work really good too. An arbor over the pond gets rid of two things....aglae and herons. Herons do like to be in places they can't fly out of. For cats and raccoons, the first order of business is to ALWAYS make your pond steep sided to begin with. Neither animal likes to fall into water of unknown depth. Then there's electric fencing that some of my friends use to great success 9and that scarecrow works if you keep moving it around..herons learn)I have 35 goldfish and didn't lose one this year but I do use the black netting to keep out kingfishers and owls. We also get American Bullfrogs here and they can climb into my pond so I don't mind the heron walking around surveying (and the black net keeps the frog out too).I never buy koi...I get fancier goldfish (the orf's are great but they require a bit more care) like shubunkins (never the truly fancy type that can't stay outside all winter). I am really seeing some bamboo near the pond; per | |
