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Tim
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 04:53 pm EST : |   |
This time last year I spent two weeks in southwest Turkey on a Cyclamen Society field trip studying Cyclamen mirabile. I was very fortunate to be offered such a chance as I was in the company of two very experienced and well respected botanists. I have fond memories of the trip, not least because of being able to see plants like this. Look to the bottom right in the photo and you will see one of the leaves - also very attractive. A dark green 'christmas tree' pattern surrounded by silver.
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Valia
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| | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 05:21 pm EST : | |
Love that leaf!
The flowers are pretty, too, but this one I would grow even if it never bloomed.
Anne, Washington State, Zone 5 |
Terryk
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 06:19 pm EST : | |
Very lovely Tim. I agree the leaf pattern alone is splendid.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Euphorbphreak
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| | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 08:21 pm EST : | |
You lucky guy! I would love to have company of trained experts to explore the natural habitat of plants I like. This (cyclamen) is one of them. What did you discover? What is their natural habitat, soil and climate like?
David, the other CA, 10/17 |
David_b
My Weather
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 02:40 am EST : | |
The leaves of this species are really beautiful. My pot plants have only bloomed sparingly, but I have enjoyed the distinctly pink-rose color of the variegation in the leaves as they emerge.
Tim, any general comments on getting potted cyclamen to bloom well? It does seem that correct watering is critically important. I suspect I have overwatered plants or they have gotten too much rainwater in early fall.
Someday it would be great to see these species in the wild.
David Michigan zone 5b-6a |
Tim
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 05:00 pm EST : | |
Hello David (Euphorpfreak), we saw other cyclamen species besides C. mirabile. C. hederifolium was also in flower which was nice to see, although the Turkish plants seem not to vary much at all and it can get a little boring after one has visited half a dozen colonies. We saw Cyclamen coum and Cyclamen alpinum (formerly trochopteranthum) in leaf and on our penultimate day, we found a very nice colony of Cyclamen intaminatum in full flower. The main objectives of the field trip were to map the distribution of C. mirabile seeing if we could extend it in any direction, looking at conservation issues (is the species endangered, etc.) and looking at how variable the species is in the wild. The answer to the last point is it’s not as variable in the wild as it is in cultivation. Almost certainly due to the fact that growers constantly select for better leaf forms and flower colours, whereas in the wild such plants may well be more prone to attack from pests or things wanting to eat them, etc.
The soil in which many of the plants we saw surprised me – many of the plants were growing in terra rossa. Certainly not what you would grow them in at home! The habitat is linked to this though as at every colony we found there was one plant present every time – Quercus coccifera . These were heavily grazed and most of the Quercus were waist height. The cyclamen would be found growing on the edge of the Quercus and very often right in amongst! Makes taking photos and collecting plants (with the relevant CITES documentation of course) very difficult as they are spiny customers! We came to the conclusion that the fact that the Quercus were grazed, helped the cyclamen by keeping the oak at a reasonable size. If they got larger, they would almost certainly crowd the cyclamen out by blocking light. It seems as though the Quercus take enough moisture from the terra rossa to keep the cyclamen dry enough. Of course, we did see cyclamen groing out in the middle of meadows in amongst long grass, but the soil here was very different.
We saw some fantasic crocus too, and colchicum. Fond memories….
Hi David! Watering is critical, you're right. I'm sure it has much to do with treatment throughout dormancy too. When I moved house back in June 2002, I had to neglect many of my cyclamen (left outside in their pots) and most got much too much water. The C. coum and hederifolium put up with this but C. graecum and rohlfsianum hated it and put up virtually no flowers. Other species did flower but not like they usually do. A general rule of thumb is keep them just about moist apart from C. rohlfsianum which need to be dry. C. graecum does well for me kept moist at the base only.
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
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| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 05:15 pm EST : | |
Dumb Question Alert!!!
What is terra rossa?
Is that like Georgia red clay?
I tried to check "terra rossa" on the Internet, but even www.dictionary.com had no entry. Other results were mostly resort hotels, etc.
Anne, Washington State, Zone 5 |
Terryk
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 07:33 pm EST : | |
I am not sure this will help or confuse but I found this info in a search. Tim can probably answer this best.
http://www.geologia-croatica.hr/pdf/gc-54-1-03.pdf
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Tim
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 08:59 pm EST : | |
Hello Ann, Not a dumb question at all. Basically it means red soil. Had actually thought about using this term - I bet if I had, somebody would have said ' do you mean terra rossa'!! It tends to be quite claggy and not very well draining at all when you see and feel it, although I've seen many hellebore species and several cyclamen species thriving in it. I wouldn't dare try and use it or anything similar for growing cyclamen in pots though! A general rule for growing cyclamen in pots regarding mixture is that a mix cannot be too well drained.
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Euphorbphreak
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| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 09:16 pm EST : | |
Anne, a search for terra rossa soil turns up quite a bit. From what Terry posted and other entries, it appears to refer to an iron-rich clay (with lots of silica and organic particles making it a true clay) over a limestone substrate that provides drainage and water storage. The famous Australia Connawarra cabernets are grown on this soil and it is characteristicly Mediterranean, as it formed anciently in a high rainfall regime but also require distinct wet and dry seasons. In short, it sounds like a clay, so no wonder Tim was surprised about finding cyclamens there (and the comment about the role of the Quercus in taking moisture.)
Tim, in-ground cultivation would be different, right? I have Cyclamen coum in several areas of decomposed sandstone, and they remain dry from the end of rains in April to November, but they tend to send up flowers in late Sept or early October before the first rains begin. I had always assumed Cyclamen preferred a Mediterranean regime with dry summers and wet winters?
Do you have any other pictures to share?
David, the other CA, 10/17 |
Galanthophile
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| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 09:29 pm EST : | |
I bought a plant of this at a local plant fair and although I knew it wasn't reliably hardy I just had to find a spot for it indoors. It's one of the most beautiful I think.
Galanthophile
- Ann (Northern England),
Zone "8"
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Terryk
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:40 am EST : | |
Beautiful Ann and your photography skills are too. Do you know the name of this one?
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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David_b
My Weather
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 01:30 am EST : | |
Hi Tim, when you say keep them "just about moist" are you talking about the season of active growth (I suspect)? And during the dormant period, the plants in pots go completely dry? I know that people often keep graecum even in the summer with the pot plunged into slightly damp sand.
It is easy to tell that C. hederifolium, coum, and purpurascens seems less fussy about watering, though even those species I suspect can be overwatered.
David Michigan zone 5b-6a |
Tim
| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:35 pm EST : | |
Hi David,
That's right, cyclamen (most) do prefer a Mediterranean regime. C. purpurascens and C. colchicum are the exceptions as they never really go dormant. I reduce watering with these two species during spring and early summer but not by much. I've seen C. purpurascens all over Slovenia and Croatia growing in woodland and the soil never seems to be at all dry. You're right - cultivation in the ground is very different as there are so many (usually) other plants to soak up excess moisture during summer when the cyclamen are dormant. they don't really get the chance to sit in wet soil. In pots though..... I've lost a few cyclamen over the years due to too much water during the summer. It seems that they don't tolerate wet soil and high temps in the glasshouse very well and simply rot. Sounds like your coum are getting just what they want and need - any chance of a few photos? You say that the plants send up flowers before the rains start - I wonder what the trigger is? Does the temperature dip slightly? I suppose in short, it would appear that cyclamen in the ground are far more tolerant of a not so free draining soil, than they would be in pots where they sit in wet for weeks on end sometimes. I'm sure that more cyclamen in pots are killed by overwatering than underwatering! Yes, I do have many more photos and will sort through and post the best.
Dr David! - no, I meant keep the tubers just moist (just a dribble of water) when dormant and water freely when in active growth, although I do let the pots get quite dry (not bone dry) between waterings (when dormant and in active growth). Letting them struggle for water while in active growth as opposed to overwatering them is a lesser of two evils. In an ideal world every plant would get what it when it wanted it, but it's difficult when a collection gets sizeable. I often go into my glasshouses and find plants with soft foliage, needing water. They come back just fine.
Going back to treatment when dormant - it's handy to keep an eye on the tubers from time to time by removing the grit and making sure they are still firm. I do this on my more prized plants. C. rohlfsianum is the only species that likes to be completely dried out. No water from May through to September when it gets watered. Absolutely right about C. graecum - many growers are getting better results keeping it just moist at the base rather than drying out completely. Have to say it's nice to talk cyclamen - didn't realise that they had a following on GB.
Great photos of your mirabile Ann - was it labelled as 'Tile barn Nicholas'? Perhaps a photo of the foliage if you have time? Just looks like that selection, that's all.
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Valia
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| | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:53 pm EST : | |
Tim wrote on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 09:17 am:Have to say it's nice to talk cyclamen - didn't realise that they had a following on GB.
I think it's a seasonal thing, Tim. At this time of year, I'm sure many of us are wishing we had a few more cyclamen. And yours have such interesting leaves.
I still remember when I saw my first cyclamen: January 1966. It was a housewarming (apartment-warming) present right after DH & I married. I had never owned such a pretty pot plant. I dragged it around to several short-term residences in 1967, and was heartbroken to be forced to give it away when we moved to Hawaii in January of 1968, when it was at its best.
I'll never be an expert, and can't afford to be a collector, but who could not love them? Even DH is fascinated by them, and he is not much of a flower person.
Anne, Washington State, Zone 5 |
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