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Frostycurls
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:02 am EST : |   
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Miguel, I have pruned some of my group 3 clematis to about 12-18" within the last month. Like Katie, I wait to prune my group 2's until I can see new buds. I prefer to plant in the fall whenever it is feasible. We have a long wet but usually mild fall, winter and spring but a hot dry summer which sometimes lasts for several months. I feel that by planting them into warm soil in the fall they have several months to begin developing a root system before going through their first summer drought. I try to make sure all of my clematis get watered in the summer but it's very easy to overlook one and for those spring planted ones it can be fatal.
I'm also doing a little experimenting with my clematis. Last spring I discovered several seedlings in the garden. My first impulse was to dig them and put them in pots for safe keeping but then I decided to just leave them be, not giving them any special care, basically forgetting all about them. All of them were eventually covered by the foliage of other plants and I really did forget where most of them were growing. Now as I've been doing my fall cleanup, I'm discovering that they came through the summer just fine without my help and as near as I can remember all of them survived with the addition of one or two that are either new or I didn't notice in the spring. It will be fun to see if they survive the winter and even more fun to see them eventually bloom. Who knows one of them may be wonderful. 
Penny Oregon Zone 7 |
Kvilledude
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:34 am EST : |
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Thanks for the info Katie, Marie, and Penny.
Katie, John Howells recommends cutting viticellas all the way back to the ground. Have you actually done that? I know you said that your vits would go back to the ground this year, but didn't know if you meant it literally or if you meant back to within 6 inches or so. I am contemplating cutting some of my more vigorous ones all the way back to the ground this spring as an experiment. I have done so with Sweet Autumn Clematis but it is such a thug in my garden, I don't think anything short of a nuclear bomb would kill it!!
Marie, sorry you had mildew problems this year. I did too but it was later in the season when I started getting it so I just lived with it. I got the dreaded "M" disease on Pagoda, Etoile Rose, Roguchi, Arabella, and Gravetye Beauty. I am seriously thinking about using something next year to try and head off the problem. I was thinking about trying some of the following: diluted milk as suggested by Terry in a previous thread, rose food containing a fungicide or some similar systemic fungicide, or corn meal sprinkled around the plant (I have seen where it works for some people with black spot on roses). Perhaps next year will be a better year for the both of us!!!
Penny, how cold has it gotten in your area lately? Have you seen any resprouting on your clematis that you have already pruned? My type IIs have looked horrid since the first of October. They were fine all summer and then it seemed they all browned out at about the same time. Some of them bloomed off and on all summer so I really can't fault them for taking a rest early but the brown foliage is sure ugly!!! Several of them have tried resprouting at the axial buds within the past few weeks but the 27 degree mornings we have had in the past week have really done a number on them.
Good luck with your experimental seedlings that germinated on their own. I look forward to seeing what you get out of them. I planted some serratifolia seeds 20 days or so ago and found last weekend that they had germinated. Now I am having to baby them through the winter under a fluorescent light and hope they survive until spring!!!
Once again, thanks again for everyone's input!!
Kvilledude
- North Carolina,
Zone "7A"
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Gardenbug
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 12:26 pm EST : |
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Serratifolia doesn't need babying Miguel! Mine gets no protection at all...quite the thug.
Gardenbug Ontario zone 4b/5b |
Hunnerbun
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 01:08 pm EST : |
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I just did a search for this clem and I see why you call it a thug...
A greedy plant, inhibiting the growth of nearby plants, especially legumes.
I always wondered how they "knew" to grab onto and twine around stuff!
The leafstalks wrap themselves around twigs and branches for support. When a side of the stalk touches an object, the growth on that side slows down whilst the other side grows at its normal rate - this causes the leaf stalk to entwine the object it is touching.
This is interesting...I wonder if this would help other clems that suffer from wilt?
When planting out, in order to avoid the disease 'clematis wilt', it is best to plant the rootball about 8cm deeper in the soil. This will also serve to build up a good root crown of growth buds
I think I read somewhere on here that wilt can be caused when the top growth outpaces the root growth, which makes sense to me; if the root system isn't large enough to support the top growth then it is understandable that it would wilt back.
Hunnerbun
- Manitoba,
Zone "0b"
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Kvilledude
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 01:56 pm EST : |
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Marie, I am sure that once the serratifolia seedlings get big they will be okay. But since they have just germinated, they have no reserve fuel to keep them going after they utilize the endosperm in the seed unless they start photosynthesis. On Brian's website, he states that the worst time for germination of seeds is going into the winter--I assume this is the case since you have to try and give them appropriate and adequate light or they will get tall and leggy and possibly succumb to wiltand/or mildew.
Kvilledude
- North Carolina,
Zone "7A"
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Gardenfiend
My Weather
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 03:25 pm EST : |
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Michele, the wilt question is one huge can of worms.
I think I shall be safe from stoning if I suggest that it is generally believed to be caused by a fungus. In any event it is always good to plant clematis deeply. I don't think that actually helps prevent wilt (hope I'm not going too far out on a limb here  ); the purpose is mainly to provide buds for new growth if stems do wilt. Also, in your zone, you can probably expect the stems to freeze to ground level anyway, so underground buds are doubly important.
Mara Germany zone 6-7 |
Katie
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 03:52 pm EST : |
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Miguel, Except for the John Howell book I have always read to cut viticellas back to 12" to 18". Now that I have done that on some of them for a couple of years I suspect I will cut completely to the ground this year. With the 12" to 18" it does leave unsightly twigs at the bottom of the plant. Like you a lot of mine are fairly new, only 1-3 years old so I've been timid with them, I suspect that will change drastically in the future as I winter prune/hack my way through all of the 3's I've been putting in. I suspect my system will be a lot like Penny's in the future, as I get to that section of garden everything will get it's winter trim!
Great thread, everyone!
Katie
- Northern California,
Zone "8"
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Hunnerbun
My Weather
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:01 pm EST : |
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HEHE Mara...I guess since I am a newbie here I can plead ignorance on opening that can of worms!
I am just so happy to have all this information from everyone here at my finger tips!
P.S: where do you guys get the smilies to add to your posts...they aren't where you post your replies?
Hunnerbun
- Manitoba,
Zone "0b"
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Gardenfiend
My Weather
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:16 pm EST : |
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The smilies are hidden behind the red flower: second button from right, top row, above the text field you write your answer in.
Mara Germany zone 6-7 |
Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:21 pm EST : |
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Summer
Winter
C. serratifolia
Brian Collingwood, Manchester UK |
Hunnerbun
My Weather
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:32 pm EST : |
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 Duh...thanks. I hovered over that link but never clicked it... Where it said clipart I thought it meant that you had to insert your own!
Brian...those seedheads look like big fluffy cotton balls!
Hunnerbun
- Manitoba,
Zone "0b"
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Kvilledude
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:37 pm EST : |
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I suspect you are correct Katie about the future pruning plans that Penny laid out. Once you get so many, you have to do what you can when you can. I think this year my Julia Correvon and Purpurea Plena Elegans are going to the ground as a trial and since they will have been in the ground the longest of my viticellas.
Mara, I don't think you went out on a limb at all. I think most people believe wilt is caused by a fungus and that planting deeply just insures that you have dormant nodes below ground level so that the plant can come back from its roots if it is struck down by wilt or chewed off by a varmint or lawnmower!!! Thanks for the tip about the emoticons also. I had never really played around with them before.
Thanks for the picture Brian. Now I know what to look forward to and how to plan for where the serratifolia needs to go.
Kvilledude
- North Carolina,
Zone "7A"
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Valia
My Favorite Photo
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:50 pm EST : |
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Regarding Clematis Wilt:
I think that we finally came to the conclusion that clematis may wilt for several different reasons. Unfortunately, people tend to call any wilting, "clematis wilt".
That term should refer only to a disease caused by the fungus.
Obviously if stems are broken, plants are not watered, or roots are chewed by burrowing critters, the plants will wilt also. And it's not unreasonable to think that if there is lush top growth in wet weather, while roots remain feeble below, the roots may not be able to support the top when hot, dry weather comes.
Then you will see clematis wilting, but it is not "clematis wilt"
Anne, Washington State, Zone 5 |
Katie
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:53 pm EST : |
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Here's an interesting note about pruning Type 3's (summer clematis) from Brewster Rogerson. Keep in mind Brewster's collection is in containers.
http://smilecat.typepad.com/
I love reading his comments everyday.
Katie
- Northern California,
Zone "8"
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Kvilledude
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 05:43 pm EST : |
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That's interesting Katie. I am going to bookmark that site as I had never seen it before. I do wonder though what Brewster means by "remove most of the spent top growth now" when he talks about pruning his viticellas and Jackmanii? As of right this minute, even after several 27 degree nights, quite a few of my viticellas are very much still green and look like they haven't been exposed to any freezing temperatures. The extended forecast for the next week or so shows no below freezing temps and highs up to 71-73 degrees. Boy, has the weather been really wacky in my area this fall. First fall frost later than normal and now late summer/early fall temps for at least a while until the other shoe drops.
Anne, when I refer to clematis wilt, I mean to the disease brought on by the fungus. If the clematis succumbs due to lack of water, too much water, something cutting stem, etc. I say the clematis wilted. Sort of my own lingo to distinguish between the two. However, you are correct in saying that there was a discussion a while back about "clematis wilt" and clematis wilting due to environmental or animal problems.
Michelle, don't know if you have ever been to Brian Collingwood's website, but he has tons of information on it about growing clematis from seed and hybridization. It's really a great site. If you go up to his posting of the serratifolia clematis picture and click on the MY GARDEN heading under his picture, it will take you to his site. Load of information in one place!!!
Kvilledude
- North Carolina,
Zone "7A"
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Katie
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 07:01 pm EST : |
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Miguel, I believe Brewster is in the process of repotting most or all of his collection, a job that I understand is done once a year. So, in order to repot he would have to trim much of the foliage back. Please note it's possible to post comments to give him feedback.
Katie
- Northern California,
Zone "8"
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Gardenbug
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 07:20 pm EST : |
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Brewster, what a guy!
Miguel, my serratifolia reseeds in the garden, and that is why I thought your 'babies' could tolerate anything weather-wise.
Gardenbug Ontario zone 4b/5b |
Kvilledude
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 10:10 pm EST : |
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The seedlings are growing pretty fast Marie. Faster than most of my other seedlings have ever done so before so you might be right.
Kvilledude
- North Carolina,
Zone "7A"
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