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Terryk
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 10:22 pm EST : |   
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Following up on the seed germination thread, I thought I would show how things are going so far.
Tim's seed and those of Seneca Hill were sown in August. C. graecum subspiecies candicum were some of the first species to germinate. Unfortunately my record keeping skills are not the best, I did not record the date. I will say you have to keep an eye out for germination. They seedlings start out very fine as they peek out of the grit. They may have become leggy because I did not check as often as one should?. They were in a somewhat dark area under a table and were stretching towards the light. I then got them under grow lights to help them out.
Just the other night I got my supplies together and started to repot some of the seedlings. I used a bagged potting mix and added extra perlite for drainage. Along with this is my pigeon grit. If you are using chick starter grit it is said you can go to a courser grit.
I followed Tim's advise as usual:
"I use 7x7x8 cm square pots(I used 3" square pots) for this, although anything of a similar size will do.
All you have to remember is when you tip out the pot of seedlings, try to break away each seedling with a small amount of compost attached, like a small plug if you like. Don't worry if the compost completely falls away though - this happens frequently to me and the seedlings still grow away. Just pot the seedlings a touch deeper than they are now. C. graecum is a fascinating species to watch mature as the leaves will, for a while anyway, get better. The tubers should go dormant next late spring/early summer. Just wait until you see the foliage come up next autumn (fall). Most species are good for this - the seed leaf is no indication of the final pattern whatsoever. The third or fourth leaf will give you a good idea. Don't forget to top-dress the post with grit, it does help to stop mosses and lichen growing on the compost surface."
Here is a picture of a seedling. I had thought this tuber was the seed as it swelled into a tuber but Tim had explained
"It's not actually the seed which swells to form the tuber - a leafshoot forms from the seed and works its way towards the compost surface, and the tuber is formed when a swelling occurs at the base of the leafshoot, the stalk if you like. All clever stuff!"
And this leads to 2 trays of pots, 36 pots in total.
To give you an idea of what I have done, I have three trays, approx. 18 pots in each and each pot has approx. 15-20 seeds. Can you picture Lucy Ball in the episode of I Love Lucy on the chocolate factory line?
Last, to show you how even at this stage you can see the difference in leaves:
And so this is how you can get hooked on cyclamen!
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Frostycurls
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:19 pm EST : |
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Wow, thank you for sharing your experience.
Penny Oregon Zone 7 |
Gardenbug
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:44 pm EST : |
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October 28,04
If you look carefully, you will see some plain "silver" foliage, some pale with dark centres, a dark green with light centre, etc...Lots of fun. Mine too are under lights. They have graduated to larger pots, but I must get the gravel on them tomorrow!
Gardenbug Ontario zone 4b/5b |
Terryk
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 11:57 pm EST : |
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Aren't the beautiful? My camera/editing skills do not compare to others here. Even on some the leaf shape is different. Some have a more jagged edge already.
Do you know what one that is with the dark center and lighter outer edge? I have some from Seneca Hill that is the Christmas Tree pattern. I also have some very silver leafed ones popping up with my mixed leaf ones. Perhaps they got mixed in with the other seeds.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Terryk
| | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 07:01 am EST : |
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Marie, I also meant to ask are you using any fertilizer at all at this stage?
I think Seneca Hill recommended using a regular house plant fertilizer but at a diluted mix. I will have to dig out those instructions that came with the seeds to refresh my memory.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Gardenbug
| | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 09:15 am EST : |
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I'd be interested in any nurturing information...I have none. This is my second go at cyclamen. The first seedlings were planted outdoors last Fall and their leaves have emerged again this year. One plant has white blooms! Honestly, I have not kept records of the types, simply enjoy what happens...
Gardenbug Ontario zone 4b/5b |
Euphorbphreak
My Weather
My Time
| | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 08:41 pm EST : |
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That's interesting about the seed leaves not necessarily reflecting what the older ones will be.
For these cyclamen with particular patterns, such as the Christmas tree one that Terry mentioned, will the seeds from these plants come true as the parent?
David, the other CA, 10/17 |
Terryk
| | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 11:37 pm EST : |
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I am not sure about how true the seeds come to the parent plants. Maybe someone such as Tim would know. This is my first time growing cyclamen. If I find any info out I will post it.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Tim
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 12:06 pm EST : |
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No David, offspring from such plants are usually variable. I grow all of the selections throughout the species range and haven't found one yet that comes 100% true from seed (some are close and one has to grow a serious amount of plants sometimes to get non-conformists). A good example is Cyclamen coum 'Tile Barn Graham'. A fantastic selection made by Peter Moore which should have totally silver leaves and smallish, deep magenta flowers (almost luminous in the right light). The majority of seedlings do look like the parent plant, but a few have a green rim on the leaf edge, a border effect. I label these rogue seedlings simply as C. coum, dropping the selection name. That's not to say that plants which don't come true aren't worth growing - it's often quite the opposite as they can be very striking themselves.
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Tim
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 12:17 pm EST : |
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Terry, Marie's plants are Cyclamen purpurascens - at least the ones I can see are (which is most of them). Some nice leaves in there - where did you get the seed from Marie?
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Terryk
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 01:32 pm EST : |
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Thanks Tim.
Can you enlighten us on any methods of fertilizing and at what stage you recommend it? I did not see anything on the cyclamen society about it.
Also, David_b had posted that he thought house temperatures tend to be too hot. If you can keep the seedlings at 60-65F is this ok? He felt much cooler temps would be better but I am not sure if he meant the seedling stage. I am concerned that at the seedling stage they may get damaged. Maybe you can also give your thoughts on this.
Best wishes!
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Gardenbug
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:21 pm EST : |
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This batch of seed came from Gardens North, which has a very nice catalogue.
seed@gardensnorth.com
www.gardensnorth.com
I notice from my last year's order that I have cyclamen purpurascens, the silver leafed ones too, and c.hederifolium. No wonder I have so many seedlings. I WILL get better at labelling plants, my new year's resolution!
Gardenbug Ontario zone 4b/5b |
Terryk
| | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:24 pm EST : |
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Just finished glancing through this website. It has some wonderful items, many things that I have been thinking of adding to my garden. Thanks for posting this Marie.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Terryk
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 09:15 am EST : |
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Well, I could not resist some of the selection of Gardens North, so more seeds coming (but not cyclamen, I have enough!)
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Gardenbug
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 04:50 pm EST : |
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Have fun Terry! Glad you liked the site.
'bug, the enabler
Gardenbug Ontario zone 4b/5b |
Tim
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 05:43 pm EST : |
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Hello Terry,
I agree with David, seedlings and mature plants are best kept cool rather than too warm. 60F (roughly 15C) is as warm as I'd want to go. My own seedlings are kept in the same conditions as my stock plants - in glasshouses which are kept just about frost free.
About feeding - I used to do it when i first started growing cyclamen but don't do it at all now. I have too many plants and the regime would take too long and cost too much in feed! Plants get re-potted on average, every two years. Sometimes into ever so slightly larger pots, occasionally back into their current pots. I renew the compost and they obviously get nutrients when I do this. Other than that, they get nothing in the way of feed. It's one of those funny things - feeding is recommended for so many plants, but I wonder how many of them actually need it? Sure, it doesn't hurt to do it, but plants like cyclamen certainly don't need it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if it makes you feel better and you're happier doing it, then fine. If you don't have the time to do it, don't lose any sleep about it. If you go down the feed route, keep it weak as a strong mixture will promote lots of foliage at the expense of the flowers. Although perhaps this is a good thing if you have a plant with great foliage that you want to exhibit. So many ideas.....
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Terryk
| | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:08 pm EST : |
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Hi Tim,
Thanks for your feedback on the temps. I will have to keep track of the temperature in various areas in the basement. Right now the seedlings are in an area that maybe too warm. I think the grow lights are also bringing the temperature up too. I do have another area which may be cooler and then the coolest area may turn too cold as the outside temperatures dip. When real winter sets in this room will land up below freezing at times (when the temps are in the 20sF). I can't afford to use a heater in this room-the pocket book will be empty if I do that! I am now tracking the high and low of this room, hopefully it will help determine if it can be used.
As far as the fertilizing, I will take your suggestion and forgo using it. Still remember your suggestion to keep it simple.
Of course with the amount of trays of cyclamen I will have, this may be my biggest problem. I think once I repot all the germinated seeds I could land up with hundreds of pots of cyclamen! Maybe you can give me an idea of how you watered all your cyclamen. It would be especially helpful to know how you did this when you just grew them in your basement. I was reading a greenhouse catalog and it had capillary matting which sounded interesting.
On another note, I have more of your hellebores starting to germinate. These are the ones I put in a small plastic bag and set in the fridge for a while.
I think this will be a busy winter of indoor gardening.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Tim
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 01:24 pm EST : |
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Hi Terry,
I've never grown cyclamen or anything else in a basement - very few houses in the UK have them (tends to be older houses).
I used to germinate seeds in my spare room at my old house but not that many - only what I couldn't fit in the glasshouses. Now that I've moved, I have enough room, for now anyway!
I've always watered my cyclamen from the top. There are growers who insist on watering from the bottom but this is very time consuming. Pots are plunged into water so that about half the pot is submerged and is left for half an hour or so. I don't have time to do this! Flood benches are even quicker than watering from the top - each bench holds so many plants and the bench is filled with water and left until the plants are watered (from the bottom). The water is then drained away. Peter Moore uses this method and his plants are superb. If I had the resources to do so, I would build some flood benches. One day maybe.
I too have been potting on cyclamen seedlings. I have filled my own glasshouses up and have started on my neighbours. There is the polytunnel but I'm determined to use this exclusively for hellebores. These have started to germinate now. Mostly hybrids, although I have a few H. odorus and torquatus too. I also have hundreds of H. lividus seedlings which I've grown from seed passed on to me as old(ish) seed. Proves the point that as far as hellebore seed goes, it's all in the storage, not about the age. I've proved this to myself many a time.
Tim Cambridgeshire UK Zone 7 |
Terryk
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 07:16 pm EST : |
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Hi Tim,
I guess for now I will just have to take one step at a time with my cyclamen project. I wish I knew someone who would share spare in their greenhouse!
Thanks for your reply.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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