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Timo
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 04:21 pm EST : |   
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I have continued with this subsection. My table is now in this form:
 .
For the next meeting of our clematis club I have prepared one table with links to photo-pages.
Now I compared the natural habitat of the species using this Excel-table, see:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/lofgren/Clemclub/Viornae_habitats.xls
It is easy to see, that the species in the upper and left part of the larger box thrive in calcareous soils. Nothing is said about reticulata and viorna, and only glaucophylla is said to grow in neutral to slightly acid soils.
You who grow this subsection from seed, do you add some calcite or dolomite to the soil? The same amount for all, or more to some?
Timo
- Finland,
Zone "USDA 4-5"
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Bengts
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 06:15 pm EST : |
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Dear Timo
Thanks for your continued research and thanks for the information on our coming trip to Finland to study C. sibirica in Bötombergen.
Best
BengtS
Bengts
- Stockholm area,
Zone "Swedish zone 2-3"
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Ton_hannink
My Garden
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 12:00 pm EST : |
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Timo, for all this kind of clematis I use the normal soil without adding calcite or dolomite.
Ton_hannink The Netherlands |
Keith_treadaway
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 09:24 pm EST : |
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I don't add lime of any particular type to any of the viorna types, but do try to get near to the drainage types as found in the wild, sandy soil for reticulata, lots of grit for the American integrifolia group etc. I do use a soil base (John Innes types, as they are known here) for my compost though, rather than a peat/peat substitute base, but do add a little of the latter, just to lighten the compost up a bit, also sand/grit/vermiculite to suit the different types. Basically I try to get somewhere near to the soil type they would normally grow in in the wild. I have tried adding lime in the past, but am not convinced as yet that the actual PH is too critical for this group - I am however always more than happy to learn - the more you find out, the more you realise how much you don't know!
Keith_treadaway
- Pembrokeshire,
Zone "8 - 9"
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Timo
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 06:00 am EST : |
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I think all have not Excel in their PC:s. Here is the same as a picture (.gif).
The sources:
Flora of North America, Flora of Virginia Project,
Flora of China.
Timo
- Finland,
Zone "USDA 4-5"
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Keith_treadaway
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 04:26 pm EST : |
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I am still wondering if it is that alkaline soil, or at least that which is underlaid by chalk, often tends to hold moisture well that is more important than it's actual alkalinity.
I tend to think that clematis in general are very tolerant of lime, rather than being liome lovers. Time will tell!
Keith_treadaway
- Pembrokeshire,
Zone "8 - 9"
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Rogervanloon
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 04:55 pm EST : |
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For these Viornae types, I use the same potting soil as for my other Clematis - no lime of any kind added. Last year, I had a conversation with a Dutch grower (who is extremely successful in propagating these clematis, as well as many other kinds of difficult plants.) I did ask him if, in his opinion, these Texensis type species need more alkalinity, as it says in literature. His answer was very short: "That's just a fable".
He may be wrong - but I certainly can't prove that he is.
Rogervanloon
- Flanders,
Zone "USDA 7b"
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Keith_treadaway
| | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:48 pm EST : |
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Just out of interest, Guernsey Clematis Nursery (Raymond Evison) use a compost which is quite acid when they propagate and grow on. As they grow a quarter of the world's new clematis plants, that rather shoots the 'use lime' theory in the foot, at least to some degree, wouldn't you say? Long term culture of course could work out slightly differently.
I know of course that some of the viorna group do require somewhat more TLC than the 'normal' types, but that really does seem more down to drainage etc. than sheer PH levels. That at least is the way I am tending to think these days, as I get more and more into growing this group.
Keith_treadaway
- Pembrokeshire,
Zone "8 - 9"
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Paul
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 06:09 pm EST : |
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On the subject of drainage keith, do you do anything different for crispa? Since it frequents marshland habitats, one would think that in cultivation it would need rather different growing conditions compared to other members of the group.
Paul
- Basel, Switzerland,
Zone "7"
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Keith_treadaway
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 07:53 pm EST : |
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I just make sure that crispas don't get dried out, and they seem to be pretty happy. I know that they naturally grow in marshland, but not as far as I know, or have been informed to date, actually in the water. So far 'normal' growing conditions seem to have worked pretty well for me, but as I say, I do keep an eye on the watering, but then again, I don't try to flood them. A lot of clematis (and other) plants in the wild seem to naturally thrive on river banks, where they can get their roots down to moisture easily, and perhaps crispa is just a little more advanced in that respect. Don't forget also that they are of the ranunculacea, and a fair chunk of that family are happy near (and even in) the water.
Keith_treadaway
- Pembrokeshire,
Zone "8 - 9"
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Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 09:07 am EST : |
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Bcollingwood
- Manchester,
Zone "UK"
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Keith_treadaway
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 08:50 pm EST : |
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Absolutely gorgeous Brian.
Keith_treadaway
- Pembrokeshire,
Zone "8 - 9"
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