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Patsy
My Weather
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 10:02 pm EST : |   
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I have one seedling from the seeds that Brian Collingwood sent via Suzy. I had about 14 seedling altogether but unfortunately they all succumbed to something. This seedling was the first to germinate back in July,2005. I pruned it back about 4 weeks ago(in the picture below you can see where I cut the stem).It has taken off growth-wise, but as you can see it's still just one thin stem. Do I prune this back again in hopes of creating more stems or branching? Is there a possibility of any flowers this year? Thanks in advance for your help.
Pat Ontario Zone 6 |
Copperlilac
My Favorite Photo
My Garden Journal
My Garden
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 01:40 am EST : |
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If it were mine, I would leave it alone and plant it when the weather warms.
Around here, Walmart sells clematis that are smaller than that and with only one stem. I purchased a couple in the fall, planted them and they came back just fine. I think if you have a good root system and you plant it this year, mother nature will take over and it'll grow great. I had one (I think it was "Blue Angel" or something like that) with only one tiny stem and it bloomed the first year.
Now, I've gotta ask...how did you start the seeds? I've tried to germinate some but I had no success...
Copperlilac
- Wisconsin,
Zone "5a"
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Finnoslo
My Favorite Photo
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 07:35 am EST : |
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If you take a look at Brian's pages (http://www.richardsdad.btinternet.co.uk/) you will find everything about starting from seed etc.
Finn Norway Zone 6 |
Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 03:32 pm EST : |
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Hi Patsy...Lovely seedling, looks like a C. florida, (same applies, if not!) I can try to give you some pointers if it might be useful. Take your scissors and, without worrying, cut the vine where the arrow is.
Make sure the medium in the pot is filled and level to 1/2 inch below the top of the pot; bury some of the stem if need be. If you have it, add a nice layer of fine gravel onto the top of the compost, (about 1/4 to 1/2 inch) but if you don't have it or can't get it, don't worry. Give the pot a saucer, and keep the compost moist, not wet, place in a nice light position away from drafts. Over about 10 days (in normal growing conditions), buds will then enlarge at the leaf axils, or will form from the root crown (still small yet but there will be some undeveloped buds beneath the soil surface (honest!). You will soon see the axil buds enlarging, or you will see new vines appearing from below the soil surface, near the base of the stem.
Almost certainly, two new buds will develop. Keep your stake (small stakes at first - 8-12", then 18 or 24 inches later), in place and when the new vines begin to elongate...
like this (you can see anti-fungal wash dried on the leaves) carefully attach them to the stake using plastic coated wire tie.
When the new vines reach the top of the stake, just allow them to continue growth, then add a second stake about three or four inches away from the first, on the opposite side of the pot. After three or four days the vines will be long enough to bend down, and tie onto the second stake. If it takes a while longer don't worry, in the end it won't make any difference. Once tied onto the second stake the vines will at first be "looking down" but they will continue to elongate, and then bend upwards, toward the light. Let them elongate sufficiently until you can tie them back again onto the second stake, and keep doing this until the growing tips are fairly near the compost, then next time you tie them, tie them back to the first stake and let them run upwards again.
So the vines are going up to the top of the first stake, over, down on the second stake, and then across back to the first, in a circular fashion, up and down. Takes about two minutes attention every four or five days.
Like this:
 or this (2nd is a large-flowered hybrid).
Instead, you can train the vines in a more horizontal fashion, around three or four stakes placed at roughly equal distances around the base, (this is more difficult with young growth to do).
Being clumsy (and because the vines are fragile) I break more vines doing this, so I usually stick to taking them over and down, vertically). Usually the horizontal method is more suitable for more mature plants.
(In my experience) the vines on C. florida, especially seedlings, stay quite slim but they soon become woody and firm, no chance of accidental breakage(!). You can add a third stake in due course for neatness and openness but it isn't really necessary. Continue to tie-in to the stakes as growth continues. As the growing points continue to move onward, the leaves below develop and enlarge, just as in your picture.
Flowers. The books say you might wait two or three years but don't believe a word of it! If you look after clematis seedlings, the plants will want to flower as soon as they can, so, for example,
germination
to flowers (same seedling) in one year.
C. florida flowers laterally, generally, so the flower buds (in C. florida, conical and sharp-pointed, green/whitish, with two bracts either side of the stem) at first appear in the axils, and then begin to develop, each on a short stalk.
The flowers gradually enlarge to readiness and then proceed to unfurl, at first creamy-white with a jet-black centre (deep purple, really), 
then they "bleach-in" over a couple of days,
The next year they will look something like this:
And also by the second year the plant's growth is much more robust, and you can accommodate the vines more easily by tieing them in to a wig-wam, on the horizontal:
Just a note: the pruning, and what immediately follows (above), isn't strictly necessary - you can just keep the one single vine, and tie it to the stakes as above. A single vine will flower fine. The pruning is just to establish the plant more fully - and you get at least two vines for the price of one very quickly, early in the season, no real delay, that means you won't be disappointed if you should break the vine just before flowering - you've got a spare(s). When you do the initial prune you can often use some of the cut-off bit as cuttings material - - but that's another story!
Bcollingwood
- Manchester,
Zone "UK"
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Katie
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 04:11 pm EST : |
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Brian, What a great description of the up-down tying method. Do you use stakes that are about a meter long (3.28 ft)or shorter?
My texensis (from Sylvia Denny) now has 2 germinations out of 5-7 seeds. My other texensis from you are doing very well. Many of my germinations are about 5-6 inches high (12-15 cm). As soon as the weather turns nice I'm going to start potting up. Currently I have them under 4 grow lights.
Katie
- Northern California,
Zone "8"
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Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 05:13 pm EST : |
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Ha! Katie you're right - I forgot completely about the stakes! I've edited it in!
Really good to hear about your seedlings, Katie, you'll no doubt have (more) excellent flowers soon. The texensis seedlings are irresistibly exciting are they not! Here's one of the SD ones about to be repotted. Really strong batch. Will flower this year for sure.
Bcollingwood
- Manchester,
Zone "UK"
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Gimmeclems
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 05:38 pm EST : |
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This is fabulous, exactly what the internet is good for! I can't wait to see your success in a couple of weeks, Patsy!
I hope it all goes just as Brian described!
Good luck, we're rooting for you!
Gimmeclems |
Katie
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 06:28 pm EST : |
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That is a healthy looking plant. Yes, the texensis are very exciting. On some of my germinations it's easy to tell even at this young stage which ones will be strong plants. I have a fantastic looking viticella (don't know the mother plant). It is staying short and is putting on leaves very close together. The leaves and especially the stem has a dark red color.
On some of my C florida seedlings(may have come from you originally via Suzy) the leaves have starting to branch into a tri-leaf shape. Also my Henryi seedings are looking very strong. They really like the additional light. So far I have had no mildew problems. I think it's because I keep a fan going from the floor upwards near the plants.
Katie
- Northern California,
Zone "8"
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Bloomorelse
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 08:28 pm EST : |
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I enjoyed all these instructions Brian. I still have a few C. Florida seedlings that sprouted last year growing in the basement for the winter. I can't wait to get them outside (in about 3 more months). They're not great looking plants, some have completely lost their leaves and regrown more, and I keep pruning them back. Maybe I should be starting them growing up and down on another stalk. Fingers crossed.
Bloomorelse
- New Brunswick,
Zone "4b"
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Shirley1md
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:50 am EST : |
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Thank you so much for your fabulous description of how to bend the vine gently downward & then back upward, while placing the stakes in a tepee arrangement. I never thought to do it that way, but obviously your plant is so floriferous, it looks like a Clematis tree covered in blooms! Outstanding!!
How many stakes do you put in one container? Is there a minimum/maximum number?
Shirley Maryland Zone 7a |
Patsy
My Weather
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 01:51 am EST : |
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Brian, I can't begin to thank you for your answer!How thoughtful of you to give me such a thorough reply, along with all of the instructional photos. Yes, this is a C.florida seedling from your seeds. It is in the original pot that it germinated in and I have had it in a north-facing window all of its life. I have cut it back once, but I will follow your instructions and cut it back again.
Pat Ontario Zone 6 |
Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 05:03 am EST : |
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Patsy it will help to move it to a south-facing window, or elsewhere where it gets a little more light - you will get much better growth and earlier development/chance of flowers. Best of luck, I'm sure it will be fine.
Bcollingwood
- Manchester,
Zone "UK"
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Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 03:55 pm EST : |
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Hiya Shirley, no, no particular rules, I just use stakes as they are needed, but I don't overdo it. Often it pays to restrict the amount of growth to allow on a seedling/plant, because it is more difficult to keep a bigger plant fed and managed correctly, in a pot, through a full season. At the end of the day, my objective is still "to see the first and subsequent flowers" only.
A smaller plant (I mean, restricted as to the number of vines that you allow to develop) uses less nutrients, and is more practical to handle, and over all, better, if you have a significant number to look after.
For small seedlings I often find two stakes are enough, for bigger plants three or four, sometimes five, in, say, a 10-litre bucket. But just as required to accommodate the vines, that's all.
Bcollingwood
- Manchester,
Zone "UK"
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Shirley1md
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:42 pm EST : |
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I'm definitely going to try out your staking method and see if I can get a fuller looking blooming specimen. I will try to keep in mind that "less is more" and follow your sage advice! Many thanks, Brian!
Shirley Maryland Zone 7a |
Patsy
My Weather
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:27 pm EST : |
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Bcollingwood wrote on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 02:15 am:it will help to move it to a south-facing window
Actually, it is in a south window - I don't know what I was thinking when I typed north.
I think I will probably re-pot this seedling also into something a little bigger and in some fresh soil. I'll follow your advice, Brian, regarding the gravel. Thanks again.
Pat Ontario Zone 6 |
Karalyn
My Weather
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:36 am EST : |
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Brian thanks for the tip as I had been wondering about trimming back two of seedlings of Moonlight.
I messed up on my Olgae and campula as when i transplanted, I think I over did the fertilizing thing and they are dead,
but I replanted Olgae and after 2 months I have germination, yippee! And the seed was given to me in 2003 or 04 so that shows how tough some of these seeds can be. Plus gives me more confidence for the future.
Thanks for all you do for us! 
Karalyn Idaho Zone 6 |
Bcollingwood
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 01:30 pm EST : |
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Cheri just give me a shout anytime if I can help at all, you are more than welcome; if you want to post a pic of your seedlings or email me, just let me know. Seedlings don't generally need any feeding, there is enough nutrient in the potting soil. When seedlings enlarge and go through a re-pot, the new medium then supplied is plenty adequate for good growth. You can of course supplement it if you want to, but it is not absolutely essential - it's a matter of personal preference. Some do, some don't! Would you like to see some pics of some new 'terribly exciting' seedlings?
Bcollingwood
- Manchester,
Zone "UK"
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Suzymac
My Favorite Photo
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 03:22 pm EST : |
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I, for one would love to see your new and exciting seedlings, Brian ! Please DO show us !
Today, I re-potted all the c. Florida seedlings grown from your seed into larger pots. I have 3 of the 106-B and 6 of the 48-C. The 106-B plants may try to flower this summer, if I am lucky ! I can't wait to get these plants outdoors when weather permits. They will really take off nicely, I'm quite sure. It's thrilling to have these plants and I thank you for collecting this seed for all of us to enjoy.
I'm praying that they will survive our winters when they reach a good enough size to plant outdoors.
Suzy
Suzymac Massachusetts zone 6-A |
Gimmeclems
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 08:46 pm EST : |
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That would be great, Brian, but could you start a new thread with the seedlings?
Gimmeclems |
Karalyn
My Weather
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 02:18 pm EST : |
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Brian, that would be terrific! Of course, we would like to see new seedlings! We're clemaholics!  
Karalyn Idaho Zone 6 |
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