| Author |
Message |
    
Malgorzata
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:41 am EST : |   
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I have seen on the net some conflicting pictures of Jackmanii. Can I see some of your Jackmanii and Jackmanii Superba pictures? It was mentioned before in this forum that the plants have been often mislabeled. The one on the left I bought as Jackmanii, the one on the right as Jackmanii Superba. Would like a confirmation please. Thank you.
Malgorzata
- Fukuoka-Kyushu,
Zone "8-9"
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Jeanne
My Favorite Photo
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| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 11:26 am EST : |
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I have both..My Clematis "Jackmanii Superba" is bluish whereas the clematis "Jackmanii" is purplish..so in my estimation the one on the right is "Superba"...Jeanne
Jeanne Texas Zone 8B
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Twrosz
My Weather
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 01:20 pm EST : |
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Jeanne, I truly believe it's the other way around ... the one of the left is Jackmanii Superba. JS has fuller flowers (without the wide gaps) with a dark purple coloring and reddish bar upon first opening. I have both and I do prefer Superba.
Terry
Twrosz
- Alberta,
Zone "3"
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Twrosz
My Weather
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 01:31 pm EST : |
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This should help matters a bit ... here's Jackmanii as shown on COTW. The form, color and number of petals are the same as your plant shown on the right.
Twrosz
- Alberta,
Zone "3"
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Jeanne
My Favorite Photo
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 01:55 pm EST : |
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Her pic is hard to tell the exact color..but I stand by what I said...My "Jackmanii Superba" is almost powder blue and My "Jackmanii" is purple...you are probably right as the one on the left has more rounded Sepals like my "Superba" does whereas "Jackmanii" Sepals seem to separate more...I must say both are newbies in my gardens this year ..but I think the color is totally different...Jeanne
Jeanne Texas Zone 8B
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Paul
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 02:28 pm EST : |
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The flower form on the right conforms with what we today call C. 'Jackmannii' and the one on the left with C. 'Jackmannii Superba'.
There are 2 articles in the 2005 BCS Journal on the subject. It is a very interesting topic because what is described by Moore and Jackmann 125 years ago as 'Jackmannii' is what we today call 'Jackmannii Superba'.
Paul
- Basel, Switzerland,
Zone "7"
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Twrosz
My Weather
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 04:06 pm EST : |
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Jeanne, it appears your plants likely had come wrongly labelled ... and believe me this frequently happens with these two varieties! In my location the real Jackmanii Superba is so very difficult to come by! I have purchased several plants in that name, only to get Etoile Violette, Gypsy Queen and regular Jackmanii. Thankfully, a new friend of mine has given me a rooted cutting taken from her Superba. I LOVE this clematis and so HAPPY to again have it in my garden!
Thanks for the information Paul! It's funny how these have apparently switched names over the years!
Terry
Twrosz
- Alberta,
Zone "3"
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Peer_nz
My Time
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 09:17 pm EST : |
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sorry folks, the left seems to be 'Victoria', right 'Jackmani'
Peer_nz
- Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ,
Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Twrosz
My Weather
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:11 pm EST : |
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Peer, here is Victoria ... it's much more of a rosy mauve coloring.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/Twrosz/Picture_0703.jpg
Terry
Twrosz
- Alberta,
Zone "3"
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Peer_nz
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 08:40 am EST : |
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Hi Terry, I'll bet one of my hats its 'Victoria' it is not the slightest like 'Jackmani Superba', 'Jackmani Superba' are more purple than 'Jackmani'
growing more than 250 varieties and rarely get the names wrong, still different growing condition can make quite a difference and be confusing. The band in the ctr of the tepals are typical of 'Victoria' its hardly visible on 'Jackmani Superba'
Peer_nz
- Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ,
Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Malgorzata
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 09:05 am EST : |
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Peer_nz wrote on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 07:29 pm:sorry folks, the left seems to be 'Victoria', right 'Jackmani'
I am very glad that you have noticed that Peer. I have Victoria as well and the aka Jackmanii seems to me very alike yet different at the same time. Saying that, please check this out.
http://www.homeofclematis.net/superba.html
The flower I have in front of me in the vase does look very similar.
Jeanne, Twrosz, Paul,Peer thanks for showing interest and the input. I still consider the discussion open and very interesting.
Malgorzata
- Fukuoka-Kyushu,
Zone "8-9"
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Jeanne
My Favorite Photo
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:45 am EST : |
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Malgorzata..You are welcome..now I have the task of posting a pic when my two bloom again to see what the Heck I have....LOL....Jeanne
Jeanne Texas Zone 8B
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Paul
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:35 am EST : |
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Other features that could help with the identification: Superba has hairy buds (Jack. non hairy) and the leaves of Superba are larger and rounded.
The right hand flower looks to be definately Jackmannii but the left hand flower size is maybe a bit small for Superba and colour not so typical. Anyway its very nice.
Paul
- Basel, Switzerland,
Zone "7"
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Twrosz
My Weather
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 04:15 pm EST : |
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Yes, now that I reconsider the matter, the one just might be Victoria ...
A photo of an mature blossom will really help! Victoria does fade quite a bit from first opening.
Terry
Twrosz
- Alberta,
Zone "3"
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Peer_nz
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 09:37 pm EST : |
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18/6
Clematis 'Victoria' share feature with 'Star of India' in form of a visible central bar ( they are sisters) Jackmani's are much less prominent. I'll suggest Malgorzata to check: R. Evisons “The Gardeners Guide to Growing Clematis” 1998, Plate IV. Here are a pic for comparison of 'Victoria' and 'Jackmani Superba' plus some others, and this may be the best option as all pics have a certain amount of incorrect colour . On the who is who Paul talk about, Cl. 'Jackmani' was introduced to the market 1864 and Cl. 'Jackman Superba' named 1880 and are (Cl. lanuginosa X Cl. 'Jackmani') as well as early description for 'Jackmani' describe the 'Jackmani' we know.
Peer_nz
- Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ,
Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Peer_nz
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 09:58 pm EST : |
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Hi Malgorzata, about the flowers in the conifer I see 2 'Victoria' flowers the left one being more advanced than the right, temperature during opening affect the colour to. The pic on the website "home of--" I don't believe it is Superba, in general don't trust catalogue & commerciel websites, I have seen to many wrong named pics as well as using the same pic (sometimes mirrored) under another name eg. (Donnahue cat., 'Huldine' & 'John Huxtable')or NZ Gardener article with 9 of 11 wrong you may even find some wrong on my website, I try to avoid that, but I'm not the webmaster, so.
Peer_nz
- Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ,
Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Suzyqt1968
My Favorite Photo
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 01:52 am EST : |
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So...hmmm...do I have Jackmanii or Jackmanii Superba or neither? I purchased it recently under the name Jackmaani
Suzyqt1968
- Washington,
Zone "7-8"
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Peer_nz
My Time
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 05:56 am EST : |
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to Suzyqt1968 - Washington,
I think its 'Honora'
Peer_nz
- Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ,
Zone "USDA zone 9"
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Malgorzata
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 08:57 am EST : |
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Suzyqt1968 wrote on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 12:04 am:do I have Jackmanii or Jackmanii Superba or neither?
Thread "Show me your Jackmaniis" could be fun! With how many different hybrids do you think we could come up with? ;)
Thank you all for the help. I love the performance of my Jackmanii on the conifer and another one is a beauty as well. Nothing lost, just a chance to learn. :)
Malgorzata
- Fukuoka-Kyushu,
Zone "8-9"
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Jeanne
My Favorite Photo
My Garden Journal
My Weather
My Garden
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 01:45 pm EST : |
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Well this shall be interesting..LOL..maybe yall can help me id these that were sold to me as "Jackmaii" and "Jackmanii Superba"?TIA
This was sold to me as "Jackmanii Superba"..
Thought this shot may helps as it shows the front as well as the back of Clematis "Jackmanii"
Close up of "Jackmanii"
Jeanne Texas Zone 8B
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Josey
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:22 pm EST : |
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my jackmanii superba..notice the different number of petals and difference in colour in such close proximity
jackmanii
looks bluer than it actually was...this pic with old camera and first one with new camera
josey Ontario Zone 5b |
Peer_nz
My Time
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 07:38 am EST : |
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23/6
Hi Jeanne, I have tried to avoid answer about your pic's first I haven't grown 'Jackmani' (not in NZ as far as I know) for 20 years, I grow do 'Jackmani Superba'. But it's hard to judge on pic's as it is a combination of foliage and flowers their really will tell you what variety it is.
One thing their can change a plants appearance are age, if cutting is taken from young juvenile plants (common practice) they sometimes loose their character totally, in that case they will most probably return to their original look in 2-3 years if kept well. Colours and leaf shapes can vari from season to season. I must say it do not look like 'Jackmani'
Thanks to Paul for sending the article's on this, I find some holes in both stories, so I have not changed my mind, yet.
Josey: the last "blue" looks like something else as far as I can see the anthers are brownish.
Peer_nz
- Taranaki, West Coast North Island NZ,
Zone "USDA zone 9"
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