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Your most unusual hederifolium leaf

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Click here to open subtopic in new windowArchive through November 14, 2006Carol2320 11-14-06  06:52 am

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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 11:57 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

They are gorgeous Terry - good for you!

Galanthophile - Ann (Northern England), Zone "8"
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Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 11:06 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

The first picture is a mixed pot of seedlings from one plant.I collected the seed from a plant I grew from Archibald seed of silver leaves

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Now some from Greece that I grow.The first is interesting because I found it on Mt Parnon in the Peloppenese and it was growing within one metre of a plant of C.repandum vividum and a plant of C. graecum. So much for habitat preferences

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Tony_willis - Lancashire, Zone "7"
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Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 11:40 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Interesting photos, Tony, thank you for posting. Also in many typical colonies in Italy C. hederifolium shares the habitat as C. repandum ssp. repandum.

Where hederifolium grows closely together and flowers together with graecum it would be very interesting if ever hybridisation occurs. I know that successful cross pollination is highly unlikely because the chromosome counts are so different, but I guess it should (theoretically) be possible. The offspring should be sterile though. Has anyone ever heard of such natural hybrids?

Matthias - Southern Germany, Zone "7"
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Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 11:52 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

There was only one plant of each species with the graecum being quite out of its normal range, and no sign of seedlings

I see Grey Wilson records the hybrid in cultivation

Tony_willis - Lancashire, Zone "7"
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Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 12:45 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Yes he does, Tony... and the only contact I've had with Kit Grey-Wilson was regarding this 'hybrid'.

I got seed from the only source, Jill White, several years ago. As you've read, Grey-Wilson says that he could detect no pollen so presumes the hederifolium x graecum plant must be sterile. My plants looked exactly like those in the book. They did set seed and that seed was viable, producing several seedlings.

I wrote to Grey-Wilson to tell him what had happened, and he wrote a rather tardy reply (not unusual for him, apparently) saying that the only way I could have got seed in the first place from Jill White (the plant is called C. x whitei) would have been if she had done the cross because none of her 'hybrids' had ever set any viable seed. He asked me to send him a plant, and I replied saying that I would be glad to, but I didn't hear back from him.

I, along with a few others I have spoken to within the Cyclamen Society believe that this plant is actually an odd form of hederifolium with unusually dumpy flowers and not a hybrid at all.

Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "
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Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 12:50 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Tony, they are all quite nice! The Archibald seedling with the silver butterfly pattern in the center and the dark green around it is really special. I've not seen anything like it!

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 05:49 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Tim

I understand that your experience with C G-W is normal.I wrote him a short article and got no reply. My view is he thinks he sits on the right hand of a greater being and only corresponds with the great and the good.We lesser mortals do not qualify. I write this after most of a good bottle of Chardonnay and will probably reget it later.
Carol I had not noticed that particular leaf. As they get planted out in the garden all sorts of different ones appear.I am just looking for a nice display to cover the ground.

Tony_willis - Lancashire, Zone "7"
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Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 02:42 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Thank you Tony and Tim for the information and your very entertaining stories...

In the case of hybrids we need more proof than someone who says it is a hybrid and someone who says it is sterile. If there are no clear morphological and habitual indications and if chromosome counts can´t be done one should always insist that a plant, even if derived from a carefully controlled cross pollination at least has doubtful taxonomic status.

Matthias - Southern Germany, Zone "7"
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Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 07:33 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Here'a a better shot of my one hederifolium from Tim that was blurry the last time I posted. I think this captures the deep green and contrasting silver better (my new camera)

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 09:00 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Terry, it's a very attractive pattern.

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 09:19 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I agree Carol, it seems to be a bit nicer than other similar ones that I have. As I posted before, Tim labeled these 'nice leaf' hederifolium when he sent the seed. I think he understated how nice the leaf patterns are.

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 03:41 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I find it amazing how different the leaf sizes are on these two that grow side by side. Both flowered nicely this autumn, but the one with the small leaves had many more flowers. I wonder if there is a general rule behind that.

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Gardenfiend - Germany, Zone "7a"
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Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 08:52 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

What a nice contrast they make! They appear to be very happy in your garden Mara.

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 09:52 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mara, your combination is a winner! That's a striking silver leaf and the patterned leaf has a lot of contrast. How old do you believe the tubers might be? Have you had any seedlings? It would be interesting to see what come out of these.

Hellebores are great companions to Cyclamen, aren't they? No wonder Tim grows them both !

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 10:22 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Thanks Carol, I'm happy with them, too. They are about three years old, I think. The small-leafed one is a larger clump than visible on the photo.

Gardenfiend - Germany, Zone "7a"
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Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 06:24 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Found below a table in a very small pot in a nearby nursery and saved in the garden. Interesting the big difference in leave size within one plant:

Berthold - NRW, Germany, Zone "8a"
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Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 02:23 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

This one is not unusual but I think it is my favorite for now. It has balance and a healthy appearance.

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Jgwoodard - TN, Zone "7"
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Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 05:36 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Joseph, I'd be pleased to see one like that growing in my garden. The leaf has a pleasing pattern.

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 06:20 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Jg,

I think that hederifolium is unusual - its blue-green color, halo and leaf pattern appeals to me very much; it would be welcome in my garden anytime, smile!

Wilsonae_cyclamen - New York, Zone "6a" Click to hear a voice greeting from Wilsonae_cyclamen
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 01:40 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Berthold, I have noticed that often the first leaf produced by the plant at the start of the new growing season is often much larger than those following on. Have you observed this also?

For exhibiting purposes it makes life a little difficult as the leaf needs to be removed, often leaving a gap.

Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 08:24 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Tim

I have never noticed the first leaf being larger but will look out for it next year.

Being contentious,I must be having a bad day with my hormones,if this is a natural occurence is it not a futile thing to have to remove it for exhibition purposes.

Tony_willis - Lancashire, Zone "7"
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 10:33 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi Tony, it doesn't happen to all of my plants and it doesn't seem to happen every year either.

Tony_willis wrote on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 08:34 am:

if this is a natural occurence is it not a futile thing to have to remove it for exhibition purposes.



I do know where you're coming from, Tony. Plants exhibited are supposed to be 'in character',