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Donn
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:26 am EST : |   
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My meager experiment with starting C. hederifolium from old seeds, and a comment by one of this forum's members on another forum, led me here. My intent was merely to get advice on dealing with my late season seedlings. Little did I know!
I have questions:
Is there a definitive book or two dealing with hardy Cyclamen? Websites?
When starting Cyclamen from seed, does one experience the startling variety in leaf patterns and colors pictured in a few threads in this forum?
When you achieve a particularly pleasing leaf pattern and color, do you reproduce it vegetatively? What method do you use? Do they reproduce the same patterns/colors?
What are good sources for fresh Cyclamen seed? Is there a great difference in germination results between fresh seeds and stored seeds?
Sorry for all these questions, but this plant has captured my attention. I've been gardening for more tha 50 years, and only once has a plant group attracted me in this manner. Ornamental grasses hooked me a few years ago, and I'm deeply involved in them now. I've started over 2,000 grasses from seed in the past few years, and there seems to be no end in sight.
Donn
- New York,
Zone "7"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:41 am EST : |
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Write Tim, he may still have some seed or you can be put on the list for next year. He can be contacted through gardenbuddies mail. He has both types of cyclamen, hardy and not, and once you read the descriptions you'll be hooked on them all (some are scented, not just purpurascens).
The book to buy:
http://www.amazon.com/Cyclamen-Guide-Gardeners-Horticulturists-Botanists/dp /088192587X
Another web site that will have you drooling, but it sounds like we've hooked you already
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/Primulaceae/Cyclamen/index.html
Also:
http://www.cyclamen.org/indexCS.html
As far as reproducing vegetatively, I don't think it works well with them, but the more experienced will explain this in more detail.
Have fun loosing yourself further in the world of cyclamen!
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Tim
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:55 am EST : |
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The only book worth bothering with at the moment is 'Cyclamen - A guide for Gardeners, Horticulturists and Botanists', by Chris Grey-Wilson. ISBN No. 0-7134-8760-7, published by BT Batsford. There will be another book in the not too distant future which will definitely be worth getting. I can't add anymore details about that at the moment. The Cyclamen Society website is worth a look too. As for the best site for info - you are already here...
Do you mean when the plants are still seedlings, Donn? If so, then the answer is no. The seed leaves are usually dull. Some do show a little bit of patterning, but you'll need to see the second leaf at least to spot any potential. Third leaf onwards is better, and sometimes it is the case that plants show their true potential after the first dormant period when they come back into growth. Never give seedlings away!
I don't propagate vegetatively, no. Some growers do though Donn, and it is a way of increasing stocks of a very special plant if you are willing to take the risk. You would have to divide the tuber with a sharp knife, ensuring that there are growth points on the divisions. A dusting of a fungicide powder on the cut sides of the tuber wouldn't hurt either. Yes, the divisions will be same pattern/colour as they are clonal. You might see very small differences in for example, flower colour if the divisions were grown under different conditions (soil for example), but it's not worth worrying about. C. intaminatum can vary from year to year, especially the pink flowered forms. Mine are definitely more pink some years than others.
You could join the Cyclamen Society to take advantage of the seed distribution scheme. If you did want to join, let me know through email and I can arrange more info for you. Seneca Hill is a good source in the US I think. John Lonsdale is probably better though. I imagine that his cyclamen collection is the finest in the US. Google 'Edgewood Gardens' and you'll find his details. Fresh seed is best, but older stored seed (stored cool and airtight) is OK too. The difference in germination percentages isn't very different in my experience with fresh and stored seed. Others may tell you different.
Don't apologise, Donn. You obviously have great taste in plants...
Tim
- Cambridgeshire,
Zone "7 "
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Tim
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:56 am EST : |
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Terry, we must have been typing replies at the same time - you beat me to it!
Tim
- Cambridgeshire,
Zone "7 "
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Donn
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 12:50 pm EST : |
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Actually, no. What I meant to ask is whether seeds from one distinct plant 'come true' to the parent, or exhibit variations in leaf color and pattern, or in flower color (in mature offspring).
Does this require donation of seeds? From what I read, it will be some time before I can supply seeds.
Donn
- New York,
Zone "7"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 02:24 pm EST : |
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Donn,if you are like me these words are somewhat of a curse. You will soon land up with more seedlings then you know what do with! But Tim is correct, you will see the plant take on better leaf patterns as it matures. I on the other hand found enough leaf pattern when they are very tiny. Far more than you see with other types of plants and enough to make get you further hooked on them.
No you don't have to donate to participate in the cyclamen society's seed exchange. You will probably not get tremendous amounts of seed so you may want to look into the suggested names that Tim mentioned. I started down the path with seed from Seneca Hill and knew not a thing about growing them. Tim has walked me (and a few others) through every step of the way. If you order from Seneca Hill and choose coum or hederifolium, be prepared to get more seed than you thought, especially if Ellen has an abundance of seed that year. John Lonsdale's plants are very attractive so his should tempt you too.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Tim
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 03:25 pm EST : |
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Ah, ok Donn. Generally, you will see variation of leaf pattern and flower colour - more variation on leaf pattern I think. Some of the named forms such as C. coum 'Tile Barn Graham', which should have a truly silver leaf and a bright (almost fluorescent in the right light) magenta flower do not come 100% true. Of course, all of the offspring are C. coum, there is no doubt about that, but some plants may have a green edge on the leaf. What do you label these aberrant plants as? Just label them as C. coum. Don't add the cultivar name.
I am steering away from these cultivar names. I wouldn't do it with hellebores so I have to apply the same logic to cyclamen. On my seed list I name them as C. coum ex. 'Tile Barn Graham' just because people will be able to relate to that, or at least do some research to find out what the parent plant looks like. In future I will probably scrap the cultivar names completely and just describe the parent plants.
Tim
- Cambridgeshire,
Zone "7 "
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Carol23
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 06:45 pm EST : |
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There are also other seed exchanges - AGS, NARGS, Scottish Rock Garden, etc. A friend recently gave me a pot of seedlings that came from her plants from AGS seed and are labeled " sagittate leaf" I definitely won't part with any of these until the leaves mature. The parent plants are very attractive and unusual from any I've grown. Warning - Cyclamen can be addictive!
I think the gene pool is widened when you partake of various exchanges and sources.
Tim has a wonderful variety and you know the seed is fresh and properly labeled! I've been more than pleased with the results!
Carol23
- Southeastern PA,
Zone "6B"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 09:43 pm EST : |
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I have them too! I thought I would try them just to have something different.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Carol23
| | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 07:25 pm EST : |
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This is off topic , but I am curious, Donn, about your ornamental grasses.
Two outstanding grasses at Chanticleer Garden this year were Melinus - 'Savannah', aka ruby grass, and Muhlenbergia capillaris.
Have you grown these? They make a spectacular fall display.
Carol23
- Southeastern PA,
Zone "6B"
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Carol23
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 07:04 am EST : |
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Donn, I'm sneaking in pictures of two grasses along with Cyclamen growing beneath pine trees at Chanticleer Garden here in Pennsylvania.
The Cyclamen thrilled me. Not many area gardens have taken the step to plant them.
Here's the Muhlenbergia and Melinus. Melinus is an annual here.
Carol23
- Southeastern PA,
Zone "6B"
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Donn
My Favorite Photo
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 08:07 am EST : |
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Carol..I haven't grown 'Savannah' but I just got 4 plugs of Muhly in late summer, and look forward to them. I got some seed in a trade which was labeled "Pink Muhly" but it turned out to be Eragrostis spectabilis. It's got a similar inflorescence, but the foliage is far different.
Donn
- New York,
Zone "7"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:05 pm EST : |
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Interesting, it does not appear that the soil was amended around the trees there Carol and they are doing quite well. Is the soil in your area more clay based? If (and I hope not!) the cyclamen bed I created does not fair well, I may have to rethink how I am doing things.
Actually if I get some time this weekend, I have an area that could take some plants. Maybe, I will get some in the ground.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Carol23
| | Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 02:35 pm EST : |
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Terry, I'll ask about the soil there. To me it appears as though the gardener planted a few tubers together last year without any soil amending. The site is on a slope and the moss grows there naturally. Seems like a perfect spot among pine roots. I think it's an excellent idea rather than planting one here and there. The visual impact is greater and tubers together stand less a chance of being dug up by squirrels or other pests.
Carol23
- Southeastern PA,
Zone "6B"
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Carol23
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:16 am EST : |
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One of my friends at Chanticleer replied to my question about the Cyclamen beneath the pines.
The gardener working that area relayed how she worked it.
" yes they came from seneca hill she bought small 'seedlings' as well as larger ones -she topped with heavy soil and acidified the soil for the moss -after the moss was established she the planted the cyclamen -the cyc. was an afterthought the soil is heavy and rooty she described it as 'fill' "
Carol23
- Southeastern PA,
Zone "6B"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:11 pm EST : |
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Carol, thanks so much for the extra effort you always take to get us answers, it's really appreciated. I have to squeeze some time into the long weekend to try and get some put in some experimental spots to see how they do.
Maybe I went to all that trouble creating the bed when all I had to do was plop the cyclamen into the existing soil! I do have an area near it that has not been amended, I think it is time to experiment. Lord knows I can sacrifice a few as I have so many. I just won't add my favorite patterned ones to the spot.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 08:25 am EST : |
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Donn, do you have any updates on your seedlings? Did you bight the bullet and get some of your seedlings potted up?
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Donn
My Favorite Photo
| | Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 12:14 pm EST : |
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The only progress is a couple of the younger seedlings are finally forming their first leaves, so it won't be long.
Donn
- New York,
Zone "7"
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Terryk
My Weather
My Garden
My Time
| | Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 01:14 pm EST : |
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Thanks for the update Donn, keep us posted on your progress.
Terryk
- NY,
Zone "6"
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Donn
My Favorite Photo
| | Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 06:25 pm EST : |
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Another update. At least a half-dozen more seeds have germinated since I last posted. Some have just happened, and are still tr | |
