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Carol23  Send Carol23 a private message!


Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 05:37 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I'm checking all the pots each day and see very dark pink buds on C. trochopteranthum, seed came from Tim.



seedlings of Tilebarn Elizabeth

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Terryk  Send Terryk a private message!




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Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 05:55 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I also have lots of buds on my coum. Is trochopteranthum also considered C. alpinum? I have some plants that look like that and I have them labeled alpinum. They also came from Tim.

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Carol23  Send Carol23 a private message!


Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 06:00 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Yes, it's the same species.

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Berthold  Send Berthold a private message!


Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 06:38 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Terryk wrote on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 06:05 pm:

Is trochopteranthum also considered C. alpinum?


I also prefer "trochopteranthum" because it's so easy to pronounce (if you are used to it) and this Cyclamen is not an alpine plant.
The leaves of my trochopteranthum look identically but the plant is wild from Turkey.
The Tile Barn Elisabeth isn't that mirabile?
Carol, what about creticum, it's on the way already?

Berthold - NRW, Germany, Zone "8a"
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Carol23  Send Carol23 a private message!


Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 06:48 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Since I struggled to learn to spell that one, I'll keep the longer name!
The Tilebarn Eliz. is coum. From the images on Google, the leaf should be completely silvery green. That's why Tim doesn't like using cultivar names due to the diversity of the seedlings. To me it's interesting to see the outcome.

Berthold, I haven't noticed creticum. I do have plants but perhaps none ready to flower. I'll have to look more closely tomorrow.

Lots of coum are budded up and with the warm weather I wonder if they can wait until January.

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Tim  Send Tim a private message!


Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 02:34 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Berthold, the Tile Barn selections of C. mirabile are 'Tile barn Nicholas' and 'Tile Barn Jan' (pronounced yan).

The coum selections are 'Tile Barn Elizabeth' and 'Tile Barn Graham'.

The alpinum Vs. trochopteranthum debate, brought to us by Mr Grey-Wilson. I remember seeing a posting on Alpine-L (I think?) by John Lonsdale which explained exquisitely why the name change should never have happened. I will have to try and find it.

My C. creticum are in leaf, Berthold. I have a couple of totally silver leaf plants up too which I'm very excited about.

Carol, your C. alpinopteranthum (!) are looking great. Mine are budded nicely too. The scent fills the glasshouse and it shouldn't be too long before a few flowers actually open. I have one coum in flower at the moment.

Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "
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Wilsonae_cyclamen  Send Wilsonae_cyclamen a private message!


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Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 07:33 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Tim,

I have a couple of C. Tile Barn Karpathos seedlings growing on under lights - the flowers are supposed to be beautiful, but no sign of flowers yet!
There is also a C. Hederifolium Helena listed on the Tile Barn website, but cannot locate a picture of said plant anywhere? Tim, can you please post a photo of said plant.

Wilsonae_cyclamen - New York, Zone "6a" Click to hear a voice greeting from Wilsonae_cyclamen
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Jgwoodard  Send Jgwoodard a private message!




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Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 10:49 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I am interested in C. hederifolium 'Tilebarn Helena', but it's not listed in the Tilebarn price list. Does anyone know if this plant is available for purchase?

For anyone interested, an article (by Grey-Wilson) discussing the alpinum-trochopteranthum situation appeared in the September 2002 issue of The Plantsman. I happen to have it because the same issue has an article on Helleborus viridis wherein H. occidentalis was described with species status. Back issues are available from the publisher via a distributor.

Jgwoodard - TN, Zone "7"
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Wilsonae_cyclamen  Send Wilsonae_cyclamen a private message!


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Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 11:58 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Hi Jg,

I am also trying to get together a complete collection of Tilebarn Cyclamen Seeds/Plants and have a few seeds germinating or seedlings growing on under lights; but cannot locate Cyclamen Tilebarn Hederifolium Helena and Anne; If you do find a source or if anyone knows where said seeds can be purchased, please inform me - thank you!

I am waiting very patiently for my C. Persicum Tilebarn Karpathos seedlings to mature and flower eventually - maybe, another couple of years with any luck. The flowers remind me of Rhodium Vividum!

Wilsonae_cyclamen - New York, Zone "6a" Click to hear a voice greeting from Wilsonae_cyclamen
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Tim  Send Tim a private message!


Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 12:10 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Wilson, I don't have any photos of C. hederifolium 'Tile Barn Helena' - sorry!

I missed a mirabile selection. It is C. mirabile 'Tile Barn Anne'.

Joseph, as far as I am aware, 'Tile Barn Helena' is not available for general sale from Tile Barn Nursery. There is, in my opinion, a far better hederifolium selection being grown at Tile Barn known as 'Tile Barn Greville'. If I recall, the shape is similar to an arrow head but overall more rounded and it has a dark green leaf with a cream central shield. Unfortunately it's also not available for general sale. I posted some photos of this plant a while ago, along with other photos I took at Tile Barn.

Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "
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Matthias  Send Matthias a private message!




Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 03:42 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Carol23 wrote on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 06:58 pm:

From the images on Google, the leaf should be completely silvery green. That's why Tim doesn't like using cultivar names due to the diversity of the seedlings.



I think in the case of cyclamen, which are mostly (if not always) propagated by seedlings and not vegetatively it is more than problematic to use cultivar names for plants derived from one original named plant.
All seedlings are more or less genetically different from the parent plant and, as we can see in Carol´s seedling pot they also (of course) look different. I think that at Tilebarn they select seedlings from a certain cultivar that look more or less like the parent plant and sell these seedlings under the cultivar name, which, strictly speaking, is incorrect: A classical dilemma between correct nomenclature and marketing strategies.

I would clearly prefer to use the term "strain" in this case.

Matthias - Southern Germany, Zone "7"
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Berthold  Send Berthold a private message!


Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 07:09 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Tim wrote on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 12:21 pm:

I missed a mirabile selection. It is C. mirabile 'Tile Barn Anne'.


Tim you can have a look on it already the Tile Barn Anne ('strain' for Matthias)

Berthold - NRW, Germany, Zone "8a"
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Terryk  Send Terryk a private message!




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Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 08:50 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

That's mirabile? It looks like graecum, now I am so confused again!

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Jgwoodard  Send Jgwoodard a private message!




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Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 10:55 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I just want the plant for the name and could care less what it looks like or if it is different than other plants. My daughter (Helena) thinks it's fun when her name pops up somewhere, so it's worth it to entertain her.

Jgwoodard - TN, Zone "7"
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Tim  Send Tim a private message!


Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 11:24 am EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Jgwoodard wrote on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 11:05 am:

My daughter (Helena) thinks it's fun when her name pops up somewhere, so it's worth it to entertain her



Joseph, if you hadn't put 'Helena' in brackets, could I have been forgiven for thinking that you daughter's name was mirabile?

I'm only kidding - I remember it is Helena from the April trip, although I didn't get right away why you wanted to know if that particular Tile Barn selection was available.

Did you show her the photo of the restaurant called 'Helena'?

I have a few of the silver leaf mirabile in the glasshouse, Berthold, but I find them all reluctant to set much seed. Do yours set much seed outside?

Is it the veining on the leaf which has confused you, Terry? The scalloped edge of the leaf is the main key to identifying that plant as mirabile. The leaf shape is kidney-shaped (reniform) too, which you wouldn't normally see in graecum.

Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "
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Terryk  Send Terryk a private message!




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Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 01:09 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Just getting to post do to some home issues keeping me very busy.

Tim, is the picture posted by Berthold on November 26 mirabile? That's why I am confused, to me it looks like graecum.

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Jgwoodard  Send Jgwoodard a private message!




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Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 01:58 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Tim, she liked the photo very much. It's funny how simple things like that can be so exciting. :-)

Jgwoodard - TN, Zone "7"
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Tim  Send Tim a private message!


Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:04 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Yeah, it's definitely C. mirabile, Terry. Absolutely no doubt about it.

If you compare the plant in the photo posted by Berthold and the plant in the photo below, you should be able to see the differences more clearly.

C. graecum leaves are generally more heart-shaped than those of mirabile. The leaves of the mirabile in Berthold's photo are scalloped around the margin, whereas the leaves of graecum are not.

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Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "
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Carol23  Send Carol23 a private message!


Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:05 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Terry, Tim mentioned the scalloped edge in mirabile. I think you missed that.
Graecum doesn't have it.

Carol23 - Southeastern PA, Zone "6B"
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Terryk  Send Terryk a private message!




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Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:40 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Ok, I think I have to post some pictures of what I have labeled as graecum for you to confirm.

Terryk - NY, Zone "6"
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Tim  Send Tim a private message!


Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 03:32 pm EST :   Last Buddysize PhotosCopy highlighted text to new message Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Look forward to seeing your photos, Terry.

Tim - Cambridgeshire, Zone "7 "

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